WIP 16th Light Dragoon dismounts 1777-8

[mmcalc]

I thought I would try another 75mm figure, this time a scratch built one. Continuing the theme of rifle armed British troops in the AIW, I decided to do a 16th Light Dragoon dismounted rifleman. I am trying an armature. I used Magic Sculpt. I may try green putty next time, as the Magic Sculpt didn't stick to the wire. I mocked up the helmet details in the last photo with standard modelling clay, lest anyone think I am using a ball cap for a 1770's soldier. I will make up another trooper, as they skirmished in pairs typically.

Mike

 

[Oda]

Looks very promising!

Oda.

 

[Zim]

Green stuff or A&B putty sticks well to the wire I know what you mean about the Magic Sculpt.

 

[Nap]

Hi Mike

Great to see you showing this , interesting to see how you place the putty and in what amount to form the basic shaping ....

...and your sculpting the face !

Nice work on the headwear

Good subject matter as well

Looking forward to seeing more

Happy benchtime

Nap

 

[Briggsy]

Cracking pose, not an easy one to get right, especially by people who have never fired a rifle.

The Magicsculpt isn't the easiest to stick to the wire, a dab of super glue helps though it's far from ideal. It does however stick alright to cured Magicsculpt, though a slight dab of the stuff smeared on first helps.

Going to enjoy watching you bring this one to life.

Cheers Simon

 

[mmcalc]

Thanks all.

I was surprised at how tricky it was to get the pose realistic looking. I formed the armature in the spread eagle position and then bent him into shape. The torso wire broke because of all the repositioning. I left it separate as I figure I will need to sculpt the clothes on the legs and torso separately until I get to the coat, or at least the tails of the coat. This is all a learning process. Previously I have only modeled standing figures from scratch using air drying clay or sculpy.

You are right that having formal positional shooting training helps get the pose correct. Using the skeleton to support the rifle is critical to being a good marksman. I posed the figure assuming that a good marksman would use a good position regardless of the period, assuming that he would have learned by formal training or through experience.

I have noticed that some figures posed with various weapons are unrealistic or un-natural because the center of gravity of the weapon isn't taken into account. This is tough to understand with firearms as a lot of sculptors have not been able to handle one.

Nearly all firearms of the 1690 to 1870 period had a center of balance just forward of the front of the lock plate. In other words, if the hand is placed with the little finger lined up with the front of the lock plate, the gun will be balanced in the hand. This is true even with the heaviest of muskets. This is NOT true of American long rifles, which tended to have heavier barrels and the ballance was further forward.

Matchlocks and guns earlier than the 1690's tended to be more front heavy. The earliest ones required forks to hold the barrel steady.

I have seen 1700-1860 figures posed with a gun balanced on the shoulder with an arm placed on top of the butt of the gun attempting to look like the arm is counterbalancing the gun. In reality, the arm would tip the gun off the shoulder. A more realistic pose would be to have the center of balance behind the shoulder and have the hand pulling down on the barrel. This is an example. The pose ruins an otherwise nice figure.
https://www.tlbminiatures.com/store/p225/TLB_050_75mm_First_Rifle_Regiment_1812.html

Well, thanks for the kind comments and I apologize for the rambling post.

Mike

 

[Briggsy]

Always interesting to hear other people's experience and knowledge.

Cheers Simon

 

[WarhammerAdjacent]

Lovely work, I look forward to watching it progress. The discussion of weapons makes me miss my beautiful brown beds which I sold earlier this year. You’re right about the arm balance on the shoulder thing, if you do that the musket tends to slide forwards and out of the way. I did have a French fusil you could carry like that but only with the trigger guard up against your shoulder.

 

[mmcalc]

Actually, the standard vertical position with your finger in the trigger guard is about as comfortable as anything. It also keeps the barrel from banging into evertthing. I noticed that the British light infantry standard drill was to carry the musket or rifle with the hand at the swell of the stock, which is well forward of the ballance. I tried carrying a Baker rifle like that and it allows you to drop the butt quickly and bring the gun to the vertical. This allows you to quickly move through brush.

Mike

 

[WarhammerAdjacent]

From what I remember the bess was comfy enough carried like that, it keeps the muzzle up a touch too.

That said, I also find it interesting that a lot of the early musket drill is basically modified from the pike drill with few concessions to comfort.

 

[mmcalc]

A little more work today.

I wanted this to be a vignette and show an officer or NCO in action as well. I thought having him establishing a line he wants the following "off stage" men to form on would be a good leader type action to be taking.

I don't know if the "knife hand" or an extended index figure would be more appropriate.

 

[Merryweather]

Great start and excellent poses. For the armature try using two twisted wires instead of a single strand. It stops the putty sliding around it.
Looking forward to seeing this develop

 

[mmcalc]

Great start and excellent poses. For the armature try using two twisted wires instead of a single strand. It stops the putty sliding around it.
Looking forward to seeing this develop

Thanks for the tip. On the next armature I make I'll use two twisted higher gauge wires where I used one. I think I have a safety wire puller somewhere in the tool pile.

Mike

 

[Briggsy]

Nice composition, the knife hand is the better choice I think, it's certainly the way it is done in today's military, you can usually spot a veteran as he/she will habitually point this way.

Cheers Simon

 

[WarhammerAdjacent]

I wonder whether the knife hand is too modern? I suppose it depends what sort of look you are going for, but looking at paintings of the napoeonic period and before you tend to see a languidly extended arm with an open hand rather than the more 'cutting' knife hand.
There's some good pointing in 'The Death of Wolfe at Quebec' on the right
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...min_West_005.jpg/1024px-Benjamin_West_005.jpg
If you want drama, what about gesturing with a sword?

 

[mmcalc]

I agree, I am beginning to think a knife hand would be to 21st century. I think the traditional pointing hand, perhaps not so languid as in the West painting.

As a side note, I believe that the "knife hand" came about in the US military as a replacment for the pointing hand because of political correctness in the late 1990s. No one used it when I was in the Army, but pointing, jabbing fingers were very popular. I don’t know for sure, but I bet NCOs were told to stop pointing, as someone perceived it as being too aggressive, so they invented something better.

Mike

 

[NigelR]

Excellent start, looking forward to this one. Really nice work so far.
Being a Napoleonic nerd, I got to thinking about your scenario. As you said, skirmishers operated in pairs. Officers and NCOs directing the action would be less likely to be in a skirmishing pair. There's a painting by Faber du Faur which shows skirmishers in action in 1812 and the officer is stood nonchalantly back from the skirmishers with a drummer next to him, while what could be an NCO also is standing slightly back from the skirmishing pairs, all of whom have one guy firing and one at the ready. So maybe have a skirmishing pair with the NCO guy behind them beckoning to others? But I understand if you don't want to add another figure to the vignette, I am sure it will look great either way. Only nerds like me will ever think about this kind of stuff.......

 

[WarhammerAdjacent]

I suspect it pre-dates that in the UK military, it wouldn't surprise me if it migrated to the US from the UK. I've seen it in images of MG teams (there's one I'm thinking of showing a BREN in the AA role with a good chop going on). Its known here as the Brecon Chop and I'd be willing to bet it was a practical thing for giving clear indications in bad visibility. In my experience the 'political correctness' reason is very rarely actually true, at least in the UK military.

That said, I just looked at your pic again and it's a truly outstanding Brecon chop! I can almost feel the intensity of the NCO/Officer's gaze. I reckon you should keep it, anachronistic or not.

 

[mmcalc]

I suspect it pre-dates that in the UK military, it wouldn't surprise me if it migrated to the US from the UK. I've seen it in images of MG teams (there's one I'm thinking of showing a BREN in the AA role with a good chop going on). Its known here as the Brecon Chop and I'd be willing to bet it was a practical thing for giving clear indications in bad visibility. In my experience the 'political correctness' reason is very rarely actually true, at least in the UK military.

That said, I just looked at your pic again and it's a truly outstanding Brecon chop! I can almost feel the intensity of the NCO/Officer's gaze. I reckon you should keep it, anachronistic or not.

I like your explanation better than mine. I cannot think of a better way to convey the direction that he wants fire line to form. A sword perhaps. However, I wanted to depict the officer as being rifle armed. Handling both weapons would be redundant. It think if I were depicting a regular light company, the sword would be more appropriate. However, I am modeling the 16th light dragoon dismounted troop, which was entirely rifle armed, as far as I can tell, and not a mix of mostly muskets with rifles as an augmenting weapon. There is historical evidence that officers did carry rifles. There is a privately purchaced version of a P1776 rifle shown in Bailey's book on British Army flintlock rifles.

What does Brecon mean?

Mike

 

[mmcalc]

This painting "A Soldier Called Major John André" seems to show him in a 16th Light Dragoon uniform. I am wondering if this is a good reference for an officer's uniform for this unit.
He even has the infantry type stockings and gaiters, and what appears to be a powder horn cord on his cartridge belt. I cannot find any information that links the famous Major André to the 16th, or any information about the circumstances surrounding the painting of the portrait.

Mike