Armatures

[RobH]

Hi all!

I've built a couple of figures pretty much from scratch, using the Bill Horan style torso/pelvis wire combo for 54mm, and soldered some wire together for a 28mm one.

I've seen armatures made of twisted wire also. However, i'm unsure of a couple of things;

Are the arms/shoulders, legs/pelvis made from seperate pieces of wire to the head/spine? If so how are they attached to one another? Solder? Glue?
Are they made from one piece of wire, or is this not possible?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

cheers

Rob

 

[Jason W.]

Hi Rob,

I use Horan's style as well. Paperclip and brass wire is used for the armature and glued into place w/ 5min. epoxy. As for all wire armature I think the whole figure will get the "twisted" treatment. Not sure if this style is recomended for 54's but I've seen this done on larger scales 120mm plus.

Jason

 

[John Long]

Check out Gordy's Mickey Mantle project on M.U.G.. There's more on that thread that's useful to the scratchbuilder as well.

 

[simon1969]

Rob,

FWIW, I make mine (all three of them so far! ) from (twisted) 22SWG tinned copper wire on a pattern from an old MilMod supplement by Stan Catchpol (see pic)
Three pieces of wire, soldered together. on the last one I built up the chest/torso, pelvis, upper+lower arms/legs before animating the armature (see Gordy's MM SBS!) Much easier I think!
I did have a brainwave last night about building figures with seperate arms/legs though. Instead of the shoulders/arms being one piece, solder a piece of copper tube where the shoulders would be, build up the chest/torso leaving the ends of the tube open, then you can put the arm wires into the tube. I've done this today with the back legs of a dragon I'm building to accompany my next figure, it works a treat!!!
HTH

Simon

 

[garyjd]

Rob, I too use what is called the "Horan" method. I start with the legs and after they are "fleshed out" drill a hole for the spine. One end goes into the pelvis the other into a "blocked-in" torso. This is a very important part in getting things right. I check the pose by standing in the same position if possible. When the legs and torso are blocked in I then drill holes for the arms and head and proceed from there.~Gary

 

[quang]

Rob,

I agree with Gary.

You'll have more flexibility with separate (independant) limbs and spine. The result should be a more fluid and natural pose.

First priority is to define the stance (the way the figure stands: weight on one leg, weight on two legs, running, sitting, ...).

Start with the legs/spine/head axis. Keep in mind that the supporting foot (on which the weight of the figure rests) should be located DIRECTLY beneath the head (a downward vertical line starting from the head should meet the foot).

More than often, one is tempted to make one leg longer than the other to achieve the 'verticality'. This is a mistake. The secret is elsewhere: the angle of the pelvis (Elvis KNEW it! :lol: ).

You'll have to play with the angle of the pelvis just like in real life. Check out the mannekin on the far right to see what I mean. This is CRITICAL to get the proper balance. I cannot stress enough the importance of this step. There's no need to go further if you haven't got the balance right.

The arms should follow next. Small meat compared to the previous step.

Good luck

Quang

 

[Richard E]

Hi Rob

I've got to agree with Quang (and everybody else) here, you know I don't build on wire armatures but rather on "body parts" stuck together, but it allows me to create the correct pose with the shape of the torso and pelvis.

The best pieces of advice I can give you is to select the pose before you start and don't change your mind because it will only go wrong, and also to invest a fiver in an artists mannequin, you can set this to your pose and refer to it over and over (without getting funny looks from your family, whilst you pose in the mirror)

Good luck

Richard

 

[LCoote]

I agree with you Quang, the most critical part is the angle of the pelvis, without this correct it is imposible to achieve the correct balance.

 

[RobH]

Thanks folks.

Ain't this place great!

What I am planning is a 1/24 figure. I have the Prieser figures and have assembled one. My intention was, strangely, to build torso's and pelvis from MS and go the route I'm most familiar with (as recommended by most). Those Prieser figures are so expensive I'll be keeping them for reference!

Quang; Yes, the angle of the pelvis! I still refer to a Charles Buchanan(?) article from MM some years back on common anatomical mistakes. It covers this quite well. BTW, love that photo.

Simon: Wow, Stan Catchpol! I've mislaid my copy.....it's around somewhere but you've reminded me I have to find it!

Thamks to all for the advice.

BTW, He's going to be as Viking!!

Rob

 

[simon1969]

Originally posted by RobH@Nov 24 2003, 12:24 PM
Simon: Wow, Stan Catchpol! I've mislaid my copy.....it's around somewhere but you've reminded me I have to find it!

It's well thumbed, rather yellowed (as you can see from the scan!) but it's still my modelling bible in many respects! (it's actually one of the very few things I have left from the old days! - how I've still got it after all the moving about I've done is beyond me!)

Cheers
Simon

BTW, if you build up your armatures on diagrams & have access to a laminator(sp?) you might want to do what I did? I photocopied that diagram to various scales (up to 90mm) and put them all on the one A4 sheet & got the Mrs. to laminate it @ work. I now build the armatures on that & can keep refering to it whilst bulking it out! (still on the look-out for a better diagram though!)

 

[gordy]

i get alot of questions as to why i twist my wires, i strated to do it when i was making a series of 1/48 and i kept having trouble trying to get the putty to stick to the wire! i would push it around and around and chase it over the wire.. twisting the wire gave it some tooth and saved me that hassle, as a side benefit i could un-wind some of it to lengthen or shorten if a limb was too long or short.

I prefer using solder for wire for the sole purpose of removal of parts (during "kit engineering") - trying cutting through a paperclip with an X-acto or photo-saw!

don't overlook the shoulders, working on all three axis, they are one of the most articulate parts of the anatomy and help define the pose, from a "shrug" motion to a "lift" motion, etc.

 

[RobH]

Useful that Gordy.

Quang (I think) gave some useful advice over on the defunct HM Forum for adhesion of putty to wire; superglue and baking soda (or talc) gives an rough surface that allows putty some tooth to get hold of.

BTW, the superglue/baking soda is an excellent quick filler: solid in seconds and can be filed quick too.

Rob

 

[garyjd]

Quang, You hit the nail on the head. I guess I did not put enough info in my posting. These things mentioned in his posting are a MUST if you want your figure to look natural. Refer to the illustration below as an example, note the head is in a vertical lined up with the foot underneath it. Also of interest is that when a figure is standing in such a way the kneecaps still line up with one another, it's very easy to place one higher than the other.~Gary

PS, I love the photo of your armatures Quang, what might they be for?

 

[quang]

Yeah, Rob.

I remember the superglue and baking soda trick . One warning though, DO NOT BREATHE the little wisp of smoke which would appear from the chemical reaction. Otherwise, YOU'd be "solid in seconds and can be filed quick too" :lol:

Nowadays I have simpler ways: just put some superglue GEL on the wire before applying the putty and you're done.

Gary,

The armatures are left-overs from past projects. You may not see it on the picture but they're all flawed in some way.

I should have thrown 'em away but chose to keep them as a reminder of what SHOULDN'T be done

Quang