Box Artwork

[bagelman1952]

I have just been reading the recently added 'Open Box Review' of the Tommy's War Naval Rating. This was an excellent review by Tommi. However I have a personal issue with the presentation of this kit. The box art is superb and shows the figure on a very nice piece of basework which, when you read the review, is not included with the figure. I think it is misleading to show the figure in this way. When I was doing display models back in 70's everything had to be made and painted 'from the box' with nothing added or taken away. This was for the benefit of potential customers so they knew exactly what they were getting from the base kit. Now, I fully understand that manufacturers want to display their figures in the best light and have nothing against them being painted up by a pro painter. I do think they should be done straight from the box though and then we know what we get. That is just my humble opinion, has anybody else got any comments on this?

 

[Steve]

Yes. Crap box art equals crap sales.

 

[Gary D]

Perhaps they should show "Batteries not included" types of statements on the boxart.

Gary

 

[Einion]

Now, I fully understand that manufacturers want to display their figures in the best light and have nothing against them being painted up by a pro painter. I do think they should be done straight from the box though and then we know what we get.

Totally agree as far as the model itself is concerned. Things can still be misleading, in white metal particularly, with changes in cast quality down the line but that aside straight-from-the-box is the only way to go.

Not so sure about the groundwork though; obviously there is scope in some models for them to be shown as-is but not all figures have included bases. There's probably some expectation amongst modellers that you'll see at least rudimentary groundwork, to set the scene if not to give an idea on how to present the figure.

Einion

 

[Patrick Kamsma]

The fact that the gunsling and the cigaret aren't in the box, is more troubeling. Because the figure is sculpted exactly the way that you need both items.
I agree to some part, that what you see is what you get, but most of the times a very nice boxart with basework makes me want to buy a mini.
Then again, I never copy the boxart when it comes to groundwork.

A small textline: "Basework not included" should be sufficient IMO.

 

[LVM]

A small textline: "Basework not included" should be sufficient IMO.

I think that some brands write such messages on their boxes. I've still read that. In my opinion it is not necessary because I do not use the base when provided and because I've the habits that there is some digression between the box art and what is furnished. But when I began in the hobby (I was young) I remember that I was disappointed because the pipe the figure smokes on the box art was not in the kit. Anyway I think that if the box art only shows what we get I would not have bought this figure (and I would buy less !).

Laurent

 

[megroot]

Most boxes said also: paint not included. The box contains a not painted figure.
I think that a good boxart will improve the sales of the figure....

Marc

 

[JonP]

It is an interesting topic this. In the world of modelling it is predominantly figures that have a picture of the kit on the box rather than artwork. As a kid who wasn't inspired by Roy Cross's artwork for Airfix? The thing was though despite the trail of burning Messerschmitts on the box you only expected to get the Spitfire! When Airfix were engulfed by Heller they went through a phase of having pictures of poorly finished kits on the box instead of paintings and the sales suffered. Bad box art will have an effect on sales and I would rather see a well presented piece of work on the boxtop than a disembodied lump. Having said that Stormtroopers white over black spray finished figures look great on their boxes.
To be fair it probably wouldn't hurt to put a note on the box to say 'groundwork not included' to avoid disappointment and in the case of the sailor a note regarding the sling and ciggie; not insurmountable to most modellers but probably a problem if you are new to the game.

 

[housecarl]

I very rarely use the supplied base.
Carl.

 

[Bailey]

I think most of us have just become accustomed to expecting the actual base to differ from the box art. Yes, it would definitely be nicer (or perhaps more honest) if the box art only showed what comes in the kit. If they want to use a custom base for the main image, then include a small picture of the groundwork that actually comes with the model somewhere on the box. I'd be satisfied with that.

But, since I doubt companies are going to change anytime soon, I'll just rely on reviews like Tommy's to see what I'm getting.

 

[polyphemus]

How many use the base supplied? If not does that mean money has been spent on an unwanted lump of resin/metal.

Geoff

 

[bagelman1952]

I was not suggesting that bases are supplied or not supplied. That is up to the company and up to us as to weather we use them or not. Similarly the paint scheme is very often for guidance only and should be treated as such. My point was that if they are showing a completed model it should be what is supplied in the box. Nicely painted to tempt out tastebuds, absolutely but using bases not supplied to enhance the figure and not supplying things like slings and accessories that are shown on the artwork, that I think is wrong.
I am not making a big issue of this just wanted to know how others generally felt. I am lonely and don't get any adverts for women looking for men in my browser like others do and just wanted somebody to talk to me. LOL

 

[housecarl]

I know Rob at Imperial Gallery puts in a piece of foil to do your own slings.
Due to casting restraint it's often impossible to reproduce some details.
I know what you mean though Ken,
Carl.

 

[Helm]

I agree Ken while the odd rock or bush is fine whole sections of fence or wall etc missing is naughty as is missing slings etc when they are an integral part of the kit. Like Carl said put in lead/plastic strip for those, its not like the kits are cheap these days

 

[Tommy's War]

Interesting comments, and if I may just add my views.

I think the one thing all the posters have missed is the price of the Tommy's War Range. £12.00. I don't think any other manufacturer offers the quality of figure for that price in that scale. Notwithstanding that, the individual points:

• In hindsight I should have included rifle slings. I assumed that most modellers could easily fashion a sling and I admit that was wrong. I am working on resolving this and including a photo etch sling in the new releases due for Euro Militaire and then including them in the back catalogue. I will make the slings available for anyone who has a Tommy's War figure. I will be aiming to do this without raising the price of the figure (which represents outstanding value as it is).
• There has also been calls for painting guides and colour references to Vallejo, Humbrol and other paint systems. This will also be addressed at Euro Militaire.
• In terms of the cigarette, well that one is a little baffling. OK, I'll add some plastic rod in all of that kit, but to be honest its going to be so small that it will probably get lost rather than used.
• When I started the range I asked Günther to do the box art as I'm a big fan of his work. We discussed bases and my opinion at the time was that we could show some base work to add context as all the figures are designed to be moments in time. Therefore, we have the Royal Fusiliers on the Mons Canal Bridge and the Naval Officer in the Antwerp ruins (just to give 2 examples). It was never meant to mislead anyone and to be honest its only ever been mentioned two or three times. I can supply bases of course, but I don't think anyone would think that I could include a base within a price of £12, and as you see above, some modellers don't want a base. I don't take the point about a disclaimer on the box as 90% of sales are internet based where the buyer doesn't see the box, but I will add a disclaimer to the web description.

In summary, the box art is supposed to inspire the modeller. I'm disappointed that while those above have mentioned the negative aspects of the range (although relevant), not one has mentioned the positive aspects of the range. If I were to use the basic images, then it would be a dull world and while the masters still look fantastic they don't really reflect what can be done.

For me, the whole point is to aspire. I aspire to be as good as Günther or Carl, in my heart I know I probably won't ever get to their standard, but part of me believes I am the next Euro Militaire gold medalist.

I agree that I could have included rifle slings, but anyone that knows me knows that I have never set out to mislead anybody and that I go out of my way to provide a good product. Contrary to what seems like popular belief on this forum, figure manufacturers are not driving around in Ferrari's and lighting Cuban cigars with £50 notes, Tommy's War gains enough money to fund ongoing sculpting and casting and that's about it. My salary for literally hundreds of hours of research, preparation, bagging figures, driving hours to shows and standing there is the square root of zero.

There are changes being made (already mentioned) to the slings, paint guide and website, this will aid the customers experience. Yes, I still get people returning Tommy's War figures as they thought they were supplied painted (for £12), but no matter what I do, there will always be that sort of thing.

I will leave you with a true story of something that happened last year at Telford. I was at my stand when I guy (about 30-35) came up, picked up a Tommy's War figure, took it out the box and asked how much it was. £12 I responded. He wrinkled his nose, put it back on the table (without putting it back in its box) and simply stated 'rip-off''. He continued looking over the table, and saw Carl Startin's wonderfully painted vignettes in the display case, went in to his rucksack and pulled out an ipad, took a series of photographs and wandered off.

The point? I provide a wonderfully crafted figure for a great price and I'm 'ripping him off' despite the fact that I struggle to cover my costs. Apple make $46 billion, and sell him a piece of electronics made in China for £400. That's the modelling world I'm afraid.

But let me finish by saying that the box art is not designed to mislead anybody and I don't believe it is dishonest, I supply each release to all the forums, websites and magazines without charge so that they can provide honest and impartial reviews. If anyone is unhappy with the figure I have, and will, always refund. If there is a problem with any part I will, and always have, replace it. If anyone has any cause to question or comment on my honesty or integrity then please feel free to contact me or come and speak to me at one of the various shows that I attend.

Darren

 

[Helm]

Hi Darren
I certainly wouldn't demand a refund over something like a base and I don't think you mislead anyone with a dishonest intent but none the less if I had bought this particular model I would have expected the fence to be part of it, the sling you have already dealt with above and beyond what I would expect as Carl said lead foil or similar would be fine nor would I expect a paint guide although it's an excellent touch for £12.
Cheers
Steve

 

[brian]

Your honesty and credibility remains intact in my view.You couldn't buy 20 real fags for £12
Brian

 

[Tommy's War]

Hi Steve

I'll speak to Günther and we'll make the bases for the box art plain, hopefully that will stop any misunderstandings.

Kind regards

Darren

 

[Rich Sculpts]

Figures used to sell by the bucket-load when converted and put into large groundworks - remember Norman Abbey's battle of Isandlwana? It made Hinchcliffe Models a bunch load of sales...

Isandlwana diorama 1975

 

[Tommy's War]

You couldn't buy 20 real fags for £12

And unless you shove it up your bum and set fire to it, a Tommy's War figure isn't going to kill you