WIP Coldstream Guards Drum Major in State Dress circa 1880

[Nap]

Hi Keith

Just had a thought ..the mace pics show VR so is he using a older version ?

Also as you said he wants to be a VR fellow ...what actions were the CG in ? ...

Off to hide

Nap

 

[mick3272]

The amazing thing about these coats and those of the Donkey Wallopers Band and State Trumpeters is that the actual coats only come in a a few sizes and fit where they touch, so you are issued with the best fit that comes to hand they were made when Hyde Park was still in a flower pot. With the Royal Cypher being the only thing that changes and most probably the newest thing on the coat.
Mick

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Keith

Oooooohhhh !!! ...you know me too well !

I would suggest going for a date ( of the drum major not me and you ...lol ) and going from there

The Welsh Guards is intriguing ..it looks like the WW1 star but can't see the ribbons would have thought there would be all 3 WW1 medals .........I see the cutting date is 1921 ....

...great moustache as well !

But its a Coldstream so ..........are you going for a specific person or an overall look ?

Nap

Mate you didn't think it would be a doddle did you?
The considerations are; He is a Coldstreamer (mace, sash, apron clasp all carry the Garter Star). The Victoria cypher is much the same but plus the chest and back have large copies.
So it would be good to have a gong or two around the end of the 19th century.
It is not a specific person He is an amalgamation of the photos I gathered.
Please don't tie yourself down trying to find possibilities Kev.
Thank you for any help or guidance you can offer.
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

The amazing thing about these coats and those of the Donkey Wallopers Band and State Trumpeters is that the actual coats only come in a a few sizes and fit where they touch, so you are issued with the best fit that comes to hand they were made when Hyde Park was still in a flower pot. With the Royal Cypher being the only thing that changes and most probably the newest thing on the coat.
Mick

Yes Mick
I am damned if I can find it but I saw a black and white photo of a tiny trooper in a massive state coat.

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Keith

Just had a thought ..the mace pics show VR so is he using a older version ?

Also as you said he wants to be a VR fellow ...what actions were the CG in ? ...

Off to hide

Nap

Hello Kev
Getting back in the swing of things now and scratched around on the CG's actions in the late 1800's.
I came up with;
Tel-el-Kebir, Egypt 1882,
Suakin 1885,
Modder River, South Africa 1899–1902
and of course the Long Service Good Conduct

All the very best
Keith

 

[Scotty]

This is looking great Keith, with the Boer war medal, I read somewhere that you couldn't wear just one, the qualifying period covered both the Queen's and King's medals. Anybody else heard this? I'm fairly sure I've seen photos of guys wearing just one or the other though. Looking forward to seeing this boy painted.
Scotty.

 

[Wings5797]

This is looking great Keith, with the Boer war medal, I read somewhere that you couldn't wear just one, the qualifying period covered both the Queen's and King's medals. Anybody else heard this? I'm fairly sure I've seen photos of guys wearing just one or the other though. Looking forward to seeing this boy painted.
Scotty.

Hi Scotty

All guidance on gongs welcomed with open arms Mate..
I have not heard this before but when you do the maths. 1899 saw the start of the Boer War toward the end of Victoria's reign in 1901. The boar conflict came to some conclusion in 1902 giving a year in Edward VII's reign. So it is supporting your thought that troops starting their tour of duty before 22 January 1901 and ended after this date could wear both awards.
I will see how the Coldstreamers fit into these dates.
The figure is under the brush and I am trying to get the look of a Rembrandt ish character. That may change in the fullness of time.
I hope that all is well with you Mate?
Keith

 

[Nap]

This is looking great Keith, with the Boer war medal, I read somewhere that you couldn't wear just one, the qualifying period covered both the Queen's and King's medals. Anybody else heard this? I'm fairly sure I've seen photos of guys wearing just one or the other though. Looking forward to seeing this boy painted.
Scotty.

Hi Scotty

Looking at Peter Duckers book on campaign medals it says and I quote

" As Queen Victoria died in January 1901 before the war ended m a new medal was introduced besting Edward VII effigy but with the original reverse details . It was not possible to receive the Kings South African medal without already qualifying for the Queens , although it was possible to receive just the Queens "

The Kings was issued with only 2 clasps ..South Africa 1901 and 1902 .

Nine clasps are the most on any one medal but 3-5 being common .

Interesting eh !

Nap

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Scotty

Looking at Peter Duckers book on campaign medals it says and I quote

" As Queen Victoria died in January 1901 before the war ended m a new medal was introduced besting Edward VII effigy but with the original reverse details . It was not possible to receive the Kings South African medal without already qualifying for the Queens , although it was possible to receive just the Queens "

The Kings was issued with only 2 clasps ..South Africa 1901 and 1902 .

Nine clasps are the most on any one medal but 3-5 being common .

Interesting eh !

Nap

Blimy Kev we all but aligned.
Good research as always Mate
Thank you.
Keith

 

[mick3272]

This might help a little more.

From 1874 a fourth version of the Victoria medal appeared, with smaller lettering on the reverse and with the underline to the inscription now two spear blades separated by three separate balls. The medal also had a redesigned and more elaborate scroll suspender.[1][7]
The Victoria version of the medal was awarded up to the Army Order of July 1902, post-dating her death.[8]

Mick

 

[Wings5797]

Cheers Mick
What a super gong this is. These open up so many changes and half re strikes.
I'm glad that he will be pre 1901
Thanks for the info and images Mate.
All the best
Keith

 

[Scotty]

Hi Scotty

Looking at Peter Duckers book on campaign medals it says and I quote

" As Queen Victoria died in January 1901 before the war ended m a new medal was introduced besting Edward VII effigy but with the original reverse details . It was not possible to receive the Kings South African medal without already qualifying for the Queens , although it was possible to receive just the Queens "

The Kings was issued with only 2 clasps ..South Africa 1901 and 1902 .

Nine clasps are the most on any one medal but 3-5 being common .

Interesting eh !

Nap

Cheers Nap, it was just something I half remembered reading somewhere, thanks for clearing that up.
Scotty.

 

[Wings5797]

The amazing thing about these coats and those of the Donkey Wallopers Banand State Trumpeters is that the actual coats only come in a a few sizes and fit where they touch, so you are issued with the best fit that comes to hand they were made when Hyde Park was still in a flower pot. With the Royal Cypher being the only thing that changes and most probably the newest thing on the coat.
Mick

Suit you Sir.
Translation......
Don't worry mate you'l grow into it

 

[Nap]

Hi Keith

Suits you Sir ...woukd Sir like something for the weekend Sir....will Sir be seeing a lady Sir ....Ooooo Sir ....Suits You

Yes I watched the Fast Show ......LOL



Looking forward to seeing more on this fellow

Nap

 

[Landrotten Highlander]

Suit you Sir.
Translation......
Don't worry mate you'l grow into it

At Grace Brothers they would have said:
'Don't worry about the sleeves Sir, they will ride up with wear'.

Great sculpt by the way.
L.H.

 

[mick3272]

It brings a whole new meaning to hand me downs.
Mick

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Keith

Suits you Sir ...woukd Sir like something for the weekend Sir....will Sir be seeing a lady Sir ....Ooooo Sir ....Suits You
Looking forward to seeing more on this fellow


Nap

At Grace Brothers they would have said:
'Don't worry about the sleeves Sir, they will ride up with wear'.

Great sculpt by the way.
L.H.

It brings a whole new meaning to hand me downs.
Mick

Hello Chaps
I have been looking for this image for a while to support Mick's point on the restricted number of jacket sizes in the Household Division.
I am not sure about the guy being a Grenadier. Back in the day Guardsmen had to be six foot, the stock size for the mace is five feet one inch. The inch being the crown that screws on the top to clamp it all together.

As for the the figure, every thing has been primed and blocked base colours laid on. During this process an amount of re sculpt was was done, slowing the process of paint and re paint somewhat.
Thanks for your replies from days of yore
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Fellows
Just an update on progress following all manner of setbacks.
Following on going "titivations" with the sculpting I primed with Halfords grey spray can. This generally shows up more figure glitches to corre ct.
Then to avoid using black I used mixed burnt umber with a little prussian blue coat.
The colours are mixed to a darker shade than required and brushed on with no real detail at this stage.
Any awards are still to be manufactured.
Cheers
Keith

 

[Nap]

Hi Keith

This is going to be very impressive as it progresses ...carry on titavating !

Happy benchtime

Nap

 

[polyphemus]

Hi Keith

This is going to be very impressive as it progresses ...carry on titavating !

Happy benchtime

Nap