Hi Ian
Thank for the information and the suggestion.
The book sounds very interesting indeed - would you mind sharing its name and author unless you're using it for commercial purposes of course.
Cheers and thanks
Huw
Cuirassier Trumpeter 1815
- Thread starter smudger1960
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Hi Ian
Thank for the information and the suggestion.
The book sounds very interesting indeed - would you mind sharing its name and author unless you're using it for commercial purposes of course.
Cheers and thanks
Huw
An interesting couple of thoughts Martin. 1914 isn't my area of expertise at all though I was aware of cuirassiers serving then but that might be an interesting addition to the collection.
I suspect for the rank and file it was one size fits all the same as shoes of the era being made for left and right foot. This of course changes if your were a wealthy or heavily indebted officer.
Cheers
Huw
OldTaff
PlanetFigure Supporter
Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that , in any given period, one shouldn't think "always occurred" or "never occurred" when it comes to military matters historical. There will usually be anomalies somewhere, especially with Napoleonic armies. And there will often be useful illustrations to back them up. Just with my own little obsession, the Chasseurs a Pied of the Garde, I've found that there were three types of gaiters,of different materials, worn during the Hundred Days. Probably, all types eventually got filthy, so hard to differentiate between one chap and another!
Research can be fun, if occasionally frustrating
Alan
Research can be fun, if occasionally frustrating
Alan
Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that , in any given period, one shouldn't think "always occurred" or "never occurred" when it comes to military matters historical. There will usually be anomalies somewhere, especially with Napoleonic armies. And there will often be useful illustrations to back them up. Just with my own little obsession, the Chasseurs a Pied of the Garde, I've found that there were three types of gaiters,of different materials, worn during the Hundred Days. Probably, all types eventually got filthy, so hard to differentiate between one chap and another!
Research can be fun, if occasionally frustrating
Alan
A wise and true comment Alan.
Cheers
Huw
smudger1960
PlanetFigure Supporter
I was sent these 2 pictures from the 1808 period.
OldTaff
PlanetFigure Supporter
An interesting and very colourful project for someone.............
smudger1960
PlanetFigure Supporter
Yes Al,I will be doing one of these,but it will be from the 8th regiment of cuirassiers 1815An interesting and very colourful project for someone.............
This sounds interesting- Looking forward to seeing this one develop when the time comes.
Cheers
Huw
Mat Lambert
A Fixture
ChaosCossack
A Fixture
Interesting subject. I don't see it being so far fetched to suppose that a trumpeter might opt to wear a cuirass during a battle. The fancy coat may look fetching on the parade ground but wouldn't offer much in the way of protection. Seeing as they are a vital piece of the communication system, I would assume that losing them first during the charge may cause an issue. Seeing as troopers and officers, including general officers, wore the cuirass in the field, I'm willing to take a leap of faith that the trumpeters would wear them as well. Seeing as there is documented evidence that they were occasionally worn, it ay least says it's not impossible.
If I were a Cuirassier trumpeter at Waterloo, cresting the ridge to charge the Allied squares, I'd wear a cuirass!!!! Hell, I'd wear two!!!!
This is, of course, straight supposition and a completely uneducated guess.
Colin
PS... oh yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing what you have in mind
If I were a Cuirassier trumpeter at Waterloo, cresting the ridge to charge the Allied squares, I'd wear a cuirass!!!! Hell, I'd wear two!!!!
This is, of course, straight supposition and a completely uneducated guess.
Colin
PS... oh yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing what you have in mind
billyturnip
A Fixture
Sorry Mat I don't know. I found the pic on the web, someone here surely knows though.
I'm not certain and bing in work I can't check but I think the picture with two trumpeters might be out of Bucquoy vol 3 Les cuirassiers. The one with a single figure comes from a Rousselot plate I think.
Cheers
Huw
OldTaff
PlanetFigure Supporter
Sadly, the cuirass wasn't much protection against shot and shell,as so many eyewitness accounts tell us. Effective enough against sword/sabre cuts,and must have afforded the wearer a certain amount of extra confidence. Big chaps, too,reputedly; and on big heavy horses. Methinks I'd rather have been with them than against them!
Note to self;- must include a couple in next Waterloo diorama project. Here we go again!
Avant les sabres! Chargent!
Alan
Note to self;- must include a couple in next Waterloo diorama project. Here we go again!
Avant les sabres! Chargent!
Alan
Mat Lambert
A Fixture
Thanks Huw, but the image I was trying to identify was the one posted by billyturnip early on in the thread with many seated/mounted variations across two pages. Have you any thoughts on these?
The other illustrations I didn't know either so I'm glad you could ID those too.
Cheers
Mat
Mat the one posted earlier is Rousselot plate no. 102 Cuirassier Trumpeters II 1804-1812.
Of the others The pic with the two trumpeters the man on the left is by Rousselot (copied from the plate above) and the one on the right is Knotel. The picture of the trumpeter in a saddle is Rousselot too I think.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Huw
It's the weekend so I've had a chancee for a little more research. The figure in the saddle is by an artist called Henir Boisselier 1881 - 1959 who researched his paintings by reading memoris, visiting archives and studying period iconigraphy. All the picture aew based on the "Manuscrit de Marckolsheim" and I got the information from "Les Trompettes de Cavalerie sous l'Empire" by Vincent Bourgeot and Yves Martin which indicates that only the 6th and 7th Cuirassiers ever had trumpeters in cuirasses. There is an engraving which suggests when established the 10th trumpeters wore one but there is only this one engraving and no other sources,
Roger Forthoffer has done some research and reproduction of the manuscript and you can buy this in the format in the picture below for around 900 Euros.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Huw
ivopreda
PlanetFigure Supporter
rules in 1815 for trumpeters asked the livree imperiale, not a reverse color facing as for the previous years.
they wasn't charged to wear the cuirass but can happened that some trumpeter get te cuirass as extra protection for himself. there are many documents that show this variant
in any case in 1815 only the livree imperiale shown here at the bottom of the page
they wasn't charged to wear the cuirass but can happened that some trumpeter get te cuirass as extra protection for himself. there are many documents that show this variant
in any case in 1815 only the livree imperiale shown here at the bottom of the page
Good point Ivo but one should be careful here. This is the other Rousselot plate concerning Cuirassier Trumpeters (no 91) and indeed the imperial livery was introduced in the 1812 regulations, probably coming to be commonly used in 1813 when the losses of 1812 were being made good. It would have been used in 1815 in some cases but there are other recorded instances such as the 1st Cuirassiers (Cuirassier du Roi under the restoration) who wore their new tunics with the bourbon lace and symbols removed during the 1815 campaign. Given the speed with which Napoleon returned to France, seized power and undertook the campaign it is highly likely that the 1st Cuirassiers were not the only regiment whose trumpeters (or drummer or fifers) didn't wear imperial livery.
Cheers
Huw
Cheers
Huw
ivopreda
PlanetFigure Supporter
you are right Huw but for sure in 1815 the trumpeter didn't worn they old tunics.
in some case the Bourbon lace can be used but I think that many rgt still had theyr old green laced tunic
in some case the Bourbon lace can be used but I think that many rgt still had theyr old green laced tunic
ChaosCossack
A Fixture
Fantastic information from all... Stuff like this is what makes this forum so valuable.
Thanx for the great input!
Colin
Thanx for the great input!
Colin
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