WIP Detail from The Roll Call, (Bust)

[Jimbo]

Hi again Keith, I didn't realise you were adding a cape/greatcoat onto his shoulders it'll make all the difference to his shoulders, the fingers look much better now with the pencil, don't forget there's many different way that a pen/pencil can be held, so I reckon they look fine now, a good improvement, for what it's worth I find hands & bare feet one of the most tricky parts to sculpt.
Cheers
Jim

 

[John Ballard]

Keith
I think this is coming along very nicely. I'm hardly one to judge such fine details but if you wanted to refine his hand the fingers should be slightly more spread with the index finger on top of the pencil and the middle finger as it is but with the pencil moved a little towards the knuckle joint
Like I say I think this is very nice and any mods are really your choice.
John

 

[prhayes68]

Hi Pete,
Thanks for looking in on this one Mate.I often see this painting listed as post Inkerman and I know that some of the surviving Grenadiers help with the research and indeed modeled for the artist. I believe that a lot of the uniforms and accesories tha Lady Butler had loaned to he were of the later pattern of tunic etc.
The bust is quite a big boy weighing in at just about 1:3.8. This would make him 400mm scale approx. So for ease of handling he is a bust.I do have a small madness in the back of my head that says go for it but what to do with it afterwards is the question. I know that the Guard Museum will take it off of me and I would be pleased to give it. But the they will press me for another 30 or so to make up the ensemble.
I have mostly used milliput throughout with a different French epoxy resin for the head.
Anything you add to assist my quest here would be most welcome Mate.
All the very best Pete,
Cheers,
Keith

Hi Keith,

I've been checking through my info but don't have a lot of decent pictures around Inkerman. Once the Guards returned home you couldn't keep them away from a camera but the uniform pattern changed (most notably from the tail coat to the tunic). I have seen a photograph of a group of Grenadiers posing for Lady Butler (one of the advantages of being married to a general). I'll scan a couple of things and post them and you can ignore if they're no use.

Pete

 

[Wings5797]

Hi again Keith, I didn't realise you were adding a cape/greatcoat onto his shoulders it'll make all the difference to his shoulders, the fingers look much better now with the pencil, don't forget there's many different way that a pen/pencil can be held, so I reckon they look fine now, a good improvement, for what it's worth I find hands & bare feet one of the most tricky parts to sculpt.
Cheers
Jim

Thanks Jim,
Cheers for following up with this one mate. I have done a little more work on the hands, not in positioning just hollowing out between the bones on the back of the hands. Trying to get the emaciated feel to them.
Photographs to follow.
I am pleased that you think they are OK now, your tboughts and direction are very valuable to me in these learning curves.
All the best Jim,speak soon,
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

Hi John,
Many thanks for looking in and taking time to comment in such a positive way.
As you may gather in sculpting terms I am on the first rung of the ladder with this being my first real foray into the modelling hands and fingers. This piece started out as a simple hand shaping exercise that turned out as you see it now. My original sculpt was an attempt to position the right hand as you descibe but I ended up with more fingers than I had space. This to me was a measure of my ability today with Jim offering a much needed get out of jail card. I feel that with the small area close to the jacket and cross belt I have to call this done as well as I can do, knowing (I think) how to do better next time.
Thanks again Mate and look forward to your thoughts as this progresses.
All the best,
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Keith,

I've been checking through my info but don't have a lot of decent pictures around Inkerman. Once the Guards returned home you couldn't keep them away from a camera but the uniform pattern changed (most notably from the tail coat to the tunic). I have seen a photograph of a group of Grenadiers posing for Lady Butler (one of the advantages of being married to a general). I'll scan a couple of things and post them and you can ignore if they're no use.

Pete

Hello Pete,
Thanks for having a rake through your stash of pictures. I have been drawing the same blank in my efforts.
I did find my old catalogue from an exhibition of Lady B's works at The National Army Museum years ago. I this it metions the many inaccuracies of this painting.

My assumptions are;
That this guy would be a sergeant at minimum.
If a senior NCO all lace (including the band around the cap) and collar badges would be gold.

Things that may be important;
I was told on the Victorian Wars blog that NCO would have collar and cuffs on the greatcoat should be of the facing colour (Blue).
Rank chevrons etc would be displayed on the right arm of the greatcoat.

Any thing that you can come up with Pete will be welcomed with open arms.
All the very best Mate,
Keith

 

[prhayes68]

Keith,

Sorry about the delay getting back to you on this - work has been crazy over the last week! I agree that lace on the collar and behind the buttons on the cuffs should be gold for an SNCO. I've never seen any indication of facing colours on the greatcoat though (maybe that's for line regiments). I have found a couple of pictures from a book called "The British Grenadiers" which certainly don't appear to indicate any difference in the collar and cuffs of the greatcoat. I'll scan and it post it tonight when I get home (promise).

Pete

 

[Aveleira]

Nicely done... Beautiful details on buttons, etc.

Regards
Pedro

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Pete,
I suppose that having such a lot of work on is good, it just doesn't feel like it at the time.
At the moment I am trying to put the greatcoat around his shoulders. It'sproving to be a right pain but determination will out.......maybe. I am glad that we agree on the collar and cuff issue. I have only ever seen it on a figure, not a Guardsman, as you say a line regiment.
Thank you for digging out some pictures I will look forward to seeing them later. .
Speak soon Pete.
All the best,
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

Nicely done... Beautiful details on buttons, etc.

Regards
Pedro

Hi Pedro
Thanks for your kind comments. I do enjoy detailing buttons and badges, They are even more pleasing when people notice such small detail.
Cheers,
Keith

 

[smudger1960]

Hi Keith,what a great subject the Crimea is and you have done a great job on this bust,those buttons look great,the addition of the greatcoat is a good move,I look forward to seeing it painted up.

Brian

 

[Wings5797]

Many thanks for looking in and taking time to comment Brian.
One of the advantages or penalties for making larger scale figures is the detail that you can put into the subject. I do enjoy trying to get putty into patterns that look close to the original piece. Not always successful.
As for the painting...... I can only get on with oils, so it is a long drawn out process. I hope that I can make a decent fist of it.
All the very best,
Keith

 

[prhayes68]

Keith,

Just stumbled on this on the interweb - may be helpful. No indication of facing colours on the greatcoat.

Pete

 

[prhayes68]

Keith,

This is the other picture I mentioned.

Pete

 

[Wings5797]

Great images Pete.
Many thanks Mate.
I really like the photograph of the invalids in their greatcoats, it's exactly what I am looking for.
The variation in the coats is very interesting, the guardsman front and centre looks to be wearing His back to front. I saw some drawing on Youtube, three episodes of the Crimean War, where the 3rd Battalion had some guys had coats with habit like hoods This is a new one on me.
With the bust, I have almost finished the body of the coat bar a lot of cleaning up. It has been a real devil to do. Then I will add the empty sleeves ready for the cape. This is where your photos will come into play.
Coincidently; I had totally forgotten but I have 1st day covers of the stamps that are mentioned with the photograph of Sergeant William Powell.
You have been a fantastic help Pete and I hope that I can do justice to your input.
Many thanks and all the very best,
Keith

 

[mil-mart]

Keith a great idea for a bust. I like the work on the face, great character and looking forward to seeing the greatcoat added.
Cheers Ken

 

[Wings5797]

Cheers Ken,
Very kind words mate, thank you.
I too am looking forward to the greatcoat. I made the sholders to fill out most of the greatcoat and it looks more than a bit out of proportion without it.
I'm using Standard Milliput pretty much throughout but it isn't good for drapery. I need to get something that has a stronger consistancy and doesn't fall into every nook and crannie.
Thanks again Ken.
All the very best,
Keith

 

[prhayes68]

Great images Pete.
Many thanks Mate.
I really like the photograph of the invalids in their greatcoats, it's exactly what I am looking for.
The variation in the coats is very interesting, the guardsman front and centre looks to be wearing His back to front. I saw some drawing on Youtube, three episodes of the Crimean War, where the 3rd Battalion had some guys had coats with habit like hoods This is a new one on me.
With the bust, I have almost finished the body of the coat bar a lot of cleaning up. It has been a real devil to do. Then I will add the empty sleeves ready for the cape. This is where your photos will come into play.
Coincidently; I had totally forgotten but I have 1st day covers of the stamps that are mentioned with the photograph of Sergeant William Powell.
You have been a fantastic help Pete and I hope that I can do justice to your input.
Many thanks and all the very best,
Keith

Glad I could be of help. I admire your skill in being able to sculpt your own figures. I have no talent in this direction so am limited to what the manufacturers produce.

Pete

 

[Nap]

Hi Keith ,

Looking good ..brave man even attempting sculpting , this should look good painted ...why not try smaller scale as well .

Pete ,

Great stuff from you ..have you the details of the book the page came from ....looks good

Nap

 

[prhayes68]

Nap,

It was from a book called "The British Grenadiers" by Henry Hanning. It was published by Pen & Sword books in 2006 to mark the 350th anniversary of the founding of the 1st Regt of Foot Guards. It is an excellent book with some great pictures and also some explanation of regimental "myth and legend."

Pete