Discussion : WWII : Axis or Allied ?

[pmfs]

Actually Pedro Great Britain had Frank Whittle who invented the jet engine, admittedly at the same time as the Germans apparantly and the Gloster Meteor jet aircraft flew operationally towards the end of the war.

And our chocalate and beer's better (Just to wind Johan up )

Roger

Dear Roger, its a copy from the German plans for sure.
The English patent was in 1930 and the German was in 1935 more or less, but the German Jet was the 1st operational in all world my friend.
Germans are like US Rangers motto: "Germany Lead the way"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262

 

[billyturnip]

Hi Pedro, ok but our beer's still better

All the best,
Roger.

 

[housecarl]

Hi Pedro, ok but our beer's still better

All the best,
Roger.

A bit better than Sagres anyway.
Carl.

 

[pmfs]

A bit better than Sagres anyway.
Carl.

...but worst than Super Bock.

Cheers,
Pedro.

 

[Johan]

...but worst than Super Bock.

Cheers,
Pedro.

.... worst ? you mean Wurst perhaps, and sauerkraut ?

Just kidding - and by the way Westmalle is the best Trappist beer around anyway. Invented by monks, not by Germans

More seriously and in keeping with the question I raised with this thread : the jets the Germans invented that you mention were like their big tanks : they had their (sometimes dangerous) flaws, and even when some were quite good like the Me262, there were far too few of them to make a significant impact and on top of that they were used in the wrong way - "schnellstbomber" instead of pure fighter planes. There's no way they could have made a difference in that way.

If you want to talk about war-winning weapons that did make a difference, then you'll invariably have to conclude that Allied designs were the best : the Merlin engine (in the Spitfire !), the Jeep, the Bazooka, etc.
Much has been said also about the special qualities of the german soldier, and maybe many were good fighting men indeed, but actually the american or british soldier was just as capable. Much of the myth of the german uber-soldier existed only in the minds of their allied counterparts I'm afraid - soldiers like to brag about the enemies they fight, especially when there are rookies around. Same goes for the German equipment they were so fond of collecting as souvenirs : it was a thrill to hold an item actually used by the soldiers of the evil empire they fought - fe many American GI's were very keen on having a Luger pistol : well actually the Luger wasn't even a good pistol, it was phased out at that time, the best pistol in the world was actually the browning or the colt that the GI's carried with them !

So, since I have "switched" to WWII, I have come to like Allied stuff most

 

[housecarl]

Don't forget RADAR.
Carl.

 

[pmfs]

Hi Johan!

You choose the good side.
I am a figure painter and for me the german figures and weapons are more challenge and have more style.
Talking about weapons, the Luger P08 was obsoleted compared with Colt 1911 or even Browning, I dont think so, but the Axis had another pistols an example: Walther´s P38 and PPK 7,65 mm or 9mm with good quality an very accurate without the luger jam problems.
Dont forget the Germans made the 1st assault rifle in the world the STG44, the inspiration of Mr.Kalashnikov to do in 1946 the AK47.
The Allies have Jeep´s the Axis have Kubel´s an Swimwagen´s... the allies had the bazzoka, the axis had panzerfaust´s and panzershrek´s...
Each army with your own weapons and material, the axis had some good material like the allies, it is a matter of taste and what you want to do for your hobby.

Good models!
Cheers,
Pedro.

 

[pmfs]

Don't forget RADAR.
Carl.

One of the great advantages in battle of England.
The Germans had the Enigma the decoder machine.

 

[Paul Kernan]

Battle of England?? I'm guessing you mean Battle of Britain Being born and raised in Glasgow, I'm a proud Scot AND Brit. I'm sure most Welsh and Irish feel the same way. No insult taken or intended, just poking a little fun

 

[tonydawe]

Pedro,

I think you'll find that the Allies captured and decoded the German's Enigma machine very early in the war and deciphered the codes not long afterwards. In fact there is some evidence to suggest the Allies already had the Enigma machine before the war and were busy trying to crack it when war broke out.

The Allies subsequently listened in on German military communications for the rest of the war, and this gave them a massive advantage when planning the invasion of North Africa, Italy and France. It also allowed the British and US commanders to alert Stalin to the imminent invasion by Germany of Russia.

The cracking of the Enigma codes by the boffins at Bletchley Park (Alan Turing and other people involved in Operation ULTRA) was probably the most important act of military intelligence in the history of warfare. Churchill claimed that Ultra shortened the war by two years. Think of all the millions of people who would have died if WW2 had continued until 1947!!

 

[pmfs]

My pride is my honor, education, and my feelings.

Battle of England?? I'm guessing you mean Battle of Britain Being born and raised in Glasgow, I'm a proud Scot AND Brit. I'm sure most Welsh and Irish feel the same way. No insult taken or intended, just poking a little fun

Hi Paul!
You understand what I wrote...the WWII for the Russians are the Patriotic war.
Apologise sometimes English are difficult.
Did the germans bombing in Glasgow? no, neither any city in Wales, Ireland...only London I guess.
What pride has to do with it?
Cheers,
Pedro.

 

[pmfs]

Pedro,

"I think you'll find that the Allies captured and decoded the German's Enigma"

I know that Dear Tony.
If hitler did not invade Russia, i guess Germany would never be stopped and today the world would be very different for sure.
And I like him better this way. but needs to be rethought for future generations.

Cheers my friend,
Pedro.

 

[housecarl]

Nearly ever British industrial complex and city didn't escape the Luftwaffe.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_Blitz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clydebank_Blitz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Blitz
So it truly was, The Battle of Britain.
Carl.

 

[pmfs]

Always learning with you guys
Thanks Carl, I surrender.

 

[Paul Kernan]

Pedro
Not to beleaguer a point but as Carl points out, all industrial centres in Britain were badly mauled, granted not as bad as London. For example, being a heavily industrialised centre (shipyards, railroads, mining) in the north, Glasgow was regularly targeted by the Luftwaffe and V1 bombs. Several of my Father's family were killed during the V1 attacks. My Mother was evacuated to Eire (South Ireland) for a time, at the peak of the attacks.

One of the great controversies in Britain was the bombing of Coventry (England). High Command was apparently aware of the planned Luftwaffe attacks but did not move the RAF to properly protect the city as this would have tipped their hand to the Germans that they had Enigma.

As for the English language, I completely understand. I've been accused of trying to speak it on several occasions I wish I could speak multiple languages with the ease that other countries seem to do.

Like I said before, no insult was taken or intended

Best wishes
Paul

 

[housecarl]

Always learning with you guys
Thanks Carl, I surrender.

No need to surrender Pedro. The only thing I know about Portuguese history is the Treaty of Windsor 1386.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
That's only because England was involved, and we did it at school.
Carl.

 

[pmfs]

Hi Carl!

Surrender was just to fun, we Portugueses we will never surrender maybe to FMI in coming months I hope not
Our countries has one of oldest alliances in the world, we are old friends.

 

[housecarl]

Hi Carl!

Surrender was just to fun, we Portugueses we will never surrender maybe to FMI in coming months I hope not
Our countries has one of oldest alliances in the world, we are old friends.

Oldest alliance in the world.
Carl.

 

[pmfs]

Great to talk with you guys!

Hi Paul!

I am sorry about your family, truly Wars are the most stupid things ever, but you know what is all about.
I love this gentle discussions, because i PRATICE my rusty English and leads me to learn some history and other stuff that I like very much


Kind regards,
Pedro.

 

[pmfs]

One true history.

One true history, when my grandmother emigrated to US in 1917 by boat, in middle atlantic had to escape from the German Uboat with the "s" manouvers, was the worst hours for her, but with luck, I dont know how the Uboat failed the attack and the boat escape to the promise land. She passed away in 1998 with 99 years old.
I lived my early years in Woonsocket Rodhe Island state of Massachusetts but my mother did not adapt and had to return to Portugal.
I lived in the U.S. three years, returned in 1975.