Completed Critique I need a little help

planetFigure

Help Support planetFigure:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

silviug2009

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
124
I want to sculp a horseman....so first i start cu sculpt a horse. But....before to put the man on the horse, i want to make my horse to look better (or real :))..
So maybe you can give me an advice (i follow mr. zlobov instructions from his webpage, but now when it's finished, i need a second opinion)
Thank you and i wait for your advice.
 

Attachments

  • 6.jpg
    6.jpg
    160.6 KB
  • 7.jpg
    7.jpg
    76.1 KB
  • 9.jpg
    9.jpg
    174.1 KB
  • 8.jpg
    8.jpg
    176.5 KB
Is this Your first horse ?
It really loks good especially the head.
The only thing that I see is that it maybe lacks some "meat" on the chest, cause it looks slightly flat when looking from the front (not sure, just my "feeling"...)
 
Thank you pokrad, i'm glad you like my horse :)....yes , it's the first horse i made,....i made a centaur once .... so, i can say a made a half horse.
Yes, i will put some flesh on in....maybe tomorrow when i look at it, i will see where it's the right place (front, legs...and so on). I finished horse today, so in that moment, i can't realise where to modify.
 
Hello! For your very first horse you're doing an awesome job! They are my main interest so I'm happy to help if you need it! I've just been swamped and haven't been able to visit like I want to.

But before you add more meat to his bones, you've got some major structural problems. His neck is much too short for his head and body. You'll have a lot better look if you lengthen it just a little and shorten the back.

The back fetlocks are not bending correctly - horses do flex there but not as greatly as you have them. The cannon bones on all four legs are a bit out of proportion, do you have measurements or a photo you're looking at? Try not to go with another model because you'll just be copying the other artist's mistakes (and everyone makes mistakes) but if you have a good side view photo you can take measurements and bring it into scale.

If you shorten his back at the hips, then you can give him more of a tummy tuck and that will help reduce the mass of his barrel and bring it into proportion as well. Once you get those structural problems fixed, adding more meat to his bones will go a lot easier and look a lot better for you.

The head is very nice but you'll want to define that shoulder a little more but that's after you lengthen the neck.

You are off to a very fine start! I'm really impressed with what you have for your first horse. Very, very well done! I'm happy to help if I can. If I don't pop back in - do not hesitate to send me a PM, it will send me an email and I'll come a runnin'! :lol:

I'm do apologize for being so busy - life has just been absolutely nuts lately!

Cheers,
Karrie
 
Hello Karrie! First, thank you for your advices! No, my horse it's not a copy from another sculpture, i made it from this picture...also i use a measurement chart from mr. serghei zlobov website. So you said, the neck should be a little long....hmmmm...this means i need tu cut the head, and put it back after neck is elongate...no when i do measurement, i saw that the head it's a little longer ... i will try to follow your instructions, than i will post again pictures with modifications. (i hope you will understand what i'm wrote, my english are not so good :))
Thank you again.
 

Attachments

  • America.jpg
    America.jpg
    86.3 KB
You are absolute on the right way!

I would have three improvement suggestions:

1. The mouth is not so long

Horse_3.jpg


2. The leg which touches the ground is over the hoof too overstretched - it would have to stand a little more precipitous.

Horse_1.jpg


Horse_4.jpg


3. A little bit more volume on the flanks could not damage - from the front the horse looks a little bit narrow.

Cheers
 
Hello Martin! Thank you for encouragement :)...i have viewpoint about left leg...you show me a picture and mark wrong zone....but, in your picture, horse walking, or stand...so it's weight splits on all legs...but when running, horse weight (in my model) is put on one leg (in that position)...so, my question is....is not normal it's joint to be more flexibile than in your position??.
The mouth is not that long, wright....but when horse doesn't have in it's mouth .... sorry i don't now how is the english name for the rope who is used to control the horse...when you draw back this rope , mouth will be a little open , corners of the mouth will be draw back...
I don't now very well horse anatomy, so if my question (or the way a think) is stupid please don't pay attention :)
Thank you again.
 
Okay your reference looks like part photograph and part artwork. Let me see if these help, you're horse is in a classing racing/running pose.

So let's go with one of the greatest racehorses there ever was - Secretariat.

Secretariat Gotham Prep txt.jpg

Unfortunately, due to the photo quality it's difficult to see that grounded foreleg.

Here's another one of Scretariat.

Secretariat MOW Workout.jpg

And another great racehorse, Cigar.

Cigar JCGC.jpg

You can at least see their back legs and how far they bend at the fetlock. (the joint right above the hoof).

On the front leg, to have the right leg stretch forward so far the left base leg needs to be more vertical.

Look at the second pic of Secretariat and where his front two legs are, right is far forward and left is not quite perpendicular to the ground. Compare that to Cigar, the last photo. His right leg is descending and he's just starting to put weight on it. The left leg has gone long past perpendicular and that's where you get the greatest amount of flex in the fetlock. If it flexed that far when 100% of his weight on it alone, he'd pop the seminoid bone. Which many racehorses have done and have to be put down because of it.

Now, lengthening the neck will be a little tricky but it is do-able. If you cut the base of the neck where it joins the shoulders, you can put a longer armature wire there and join it with the other in the neck already. When you build up the neck, shoulders, and chest, that will help support it. If you have trouble getting it to stay when you first attach it, put a little super glue on the join and sprinkle it with baking soda. It will dry the super glue instantly and you will have cement - it bonds rock hard in an instant - I'm not kidding! lol!

The back - if you make a cut right at the hips and remove some of the belly and shorten him there, you can re-attach and again have quite a bit of clay to help support the repair.

And just a mention of the mouth, the lips will stretch but the actual mouth doesn't when the bit is being pulled on. Horses have a gap between their teeth where the bit rests on the gums. Pulling on the reins puts pressure on the bit and that puts pressure on the gums and the horse slows down and stops because it wants to move away from pressure.

Because your reference looks like it's part real, part drawing, I wouldn't trust those measurements absolutely. Try to find a photo of a real horse in a similar position and use those for measurements instead. It's a popular pose with photographers so it shouldn't be too difficult.
 
Wow! Karrie, your observation and advices are very usefull to me! Thank you very much!!
So my picture is part photo and part artwork...honestly I don't realise that :eek:..Sorry for my comments, basement for my judgement was that picture, so when the picture is wrong....
I will try to follow your instructions, and soon i will post the result, i hope this time my horse will look ... real
Again, many thanks!
 
No worries Silviu! You're doing great on your first horse. I was just lucky enough to be around them most of my life and I learned a lot - still learning more too! But your situation with your reference picture makes a good point for folks. Look at multiple references first and compare them, then decide which one to use as your reference.

The best thing is to try to go see a real horse you can pet and handle, even get measurements if at all possible. But that's not always something folks can do, so we have to make due with pictures. I'm starting a sculpt and I spent hours on the internet looking for various photos of horses in a similar stance. I'll decide on one to be my measurement reference but the others will still help as I look at various angles. If I can, I like trying to get photos of both sides and front and back. It's not always possible, but I try. ;)

And you also bring up a good point, an incorrect reference leads to an incorrect sculpture. That's why I don't like using other artists work for reference - at least not 100%. You end up copying their mistakes but their style can also get in the way of accuracy. That's not a bad thing for their piece, but it is a bad thing for you or me as we try to sculpt from it.

If you do have a hard time finding something, let me know and I'll dig though my links. But I'm sure you'll be just fine. I can't wait to see what you do with him. Like I said, he is starting off well, so don't lose heart and keep on going!:awesome:
 
This are my last modifications....I think the muscle are too defined...what do you think?
Anyway, I saw o big problem...front legs are too closed so the chest is not so wide like shoud be (...or i'm wrong?)...
But this is a problem i can't resolve (until i remove the legs and put them in a new position)....better I start a new figure..
Anyway...many thanks for Karrie and Martin for there indication! If my figurine looks better than before, is because they give me very good information....if not, then is my mistake, because i don't know how to follow their sugestions.
Maybe my new horse will look better :)
 

Attachments

  • 1.jpg
    1.jpg
    74.5 KB
  • 2.jpg
    2.jpg
    102 KB
  • 3.jpg
    3.jpg
    85.6 KB
  • 4.jpg
    4.jpg
    75.5 KB
I think he's looking fantastic!

His chest does look narrow but it's hard to tell without a straight on shot from the front. Also a shot from above the horse looking straight down helps with width.

The muscles look pretty good, maybe just a little smoothing. Look at those pics of Secretariat again and check out his muscling. The horse was Arnold Schwarzenegger horse! lol!

You filled out the head very nicely and the body, while still a shade long in the back, is very, very nice! The back legs are much better, but it looks like you had a little trouble with the left rear. That's okay.

If you're good with starting on a new one, that might be the easiest way to go. That way you can get your armature right with the neck and back length and the width. Call this one your warm-up piece. :D

Whatever you do DO NOT GIVE UP ON THIS! This is only your first horse and wow you've got a great start! You definitely have a ton of talent, are open to suggestions, and you implement them. Keep moving forward with this and with some practice you'll be sculpting some fantastic horses! Okay - so don't quit on me here! :p

Cheers,
Karrie
 
Silviu
How about getting some Historex horse halves and heads and using them for reference
you can mix and match the parts, probably worth it if you are going to do more horses
and I don't see why not as you have obviously got sculpting talent
 
Thank you Karrie! I don't give up, be sure of that, i'm just starting. I'll do me best in modelling, so i hope in time to sculpt much better then i sculpting today. Apreciate very much your help, and i hope on the future to get valuable advices, that will help to improve my work.
Thanks again!:)
 
Hello Ronald! Thanks for your advice.....you are right when you tell me, that i could use for reference historex horse, to mix and mach the parts, to reproduce position i want....but unfortunately, in my country i can't find to buy....so to order from another country take's time....so i will prefer to sculpt myself step by step.
I like to think about myself that i'm learning from mistakes :)....and I think i feel more confident on me, when i know that I create 80% a figure myself, without any help (of course, i use a measurement chart, for both man and horse,).
But i noticed your advice, because it's a good one, and if i have a chance to buy historex halves and heads, i will buy.
Thank you again for your advice! :)
 
Hey Silviu what country are you in? If you really need something and it's not available in your country let me know and I'll see if I can get it and ship it to you. You could just paypal the money. It wouldn't be cost effective to get a lot of stuff that way but a few items here and there would probably work.

I don't know if you saw the post I made a couple of months ago. A friend of mine is one of the top sculptors in the model horse hobby and she posted a reference list for horse sculptors. Someone put it in a PDF format available for download.

You can find that here: http://modelhorsegallery.info/library/2011SMBReferenceList.pdf

I think with a little work and practice you'll be sculpting your own horses just fine relatively quickly. ;)

Oh and another link I wanted to post for you. This lady is one of the foremost experts on equine color around and she's going to be publishing a book on the subject soon. Her blog concentrates on mostly color, so it's a fantastic reference for painters but this latest posts talks about using art for reference so I thought you would find it interesting.

http://http://equinetapestry.com/2011/08/20/artistic-liberties/

If anyone is interested in painting horses and accurate color, this blog is fantastic!
 
Karrie, i'm from Romania :). Is not a problem for my to buy something from the internet (i mean my country doesn't have restriction), but anyway you are too kind :). I will look on the reference list you send me, for sure i will find in it valuable information (y). Many many thanks!!!
 

Latest posts

Back
Top