WIP Imperial Guard Chasseur (or not)

[NeilW]

To see a whole Regt in full dress impost have been incredible and very much as eyeful for the ladies

Like this?

Perhaps better without the yellow cast?

 

[Cannonball]

Great painting and this thread really is a fascinating read to.

Gary

Thank you Gary, really appreciated.

Neal

 

[Cannonball]

Looking very flamboyant there Neal

To see a whole Regt in full dress impost have been incredible and very much as eyeful for the ladies

Thanks for sharing

Nap

Thanks Nap.

Neal

 

[Cannonball]

Like this?
View attachment 370617

View attachment 370615 View attachment 370616

This would make a great diorama/vignette.

Neal

 

[KenBoyle]

Beautiful work and loads of research material. Great thread.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[Cannonball]

Beautiful work and loads of research material. Great thread.

Cheers,
Ken

Thanks Ken.

Neal

 

[ivopreda]

between the 2 mair mistake in this figure the worst are the "cadenettes" the tressed hair... there isn't any representation of chasseur form the foundation to the end of the empire with them.

a couple of original portraits of chasseur officer

 

[Cannonball]

between the 2 mair mistake in this figure the worst are the "cadenettes" the tressed hair... there isn't any representation of chasseur form the foundation to the end of the empire with them.

a couple of original portraits of chasseur officer

View attachment 370640

View attachment 370641

Hi Ivo, the reference pictures are really appreciated. I’ve obviously committed to portraying him as a chasseur of the Imperial Guard despite the “faults” that have been highlighted in this and other threads. Having very very limited sculpting skills myself I made the decision not to attempt to remedy these for fear of ruining the rest of the bust but I’m very grateful for the information, references and knowledge you’ve provided on this subject matter.

Neal

 

[NeilW]

Hi Neal, Neil here...

First off: a GREAT paint-job so far and I'm sure it will end up fantastic (and good to see others progressing in their various different styles).

At the risk of (again) being accused of rivet counting, I agree with Ivo about about the cadenettes, as I said in my earlier posting, they'd disappeared by the mid/late Empire and as Ivo points out, lots of portraits show them 'sans-cadenettes' (so this guy must be very early or a hangover).

I also still have an issue with the way raquettes/flounders are portrayed (generally, not just on this figure). See my earlier posting and also Ivo's 2nd ref which clearly shows their intricate structure.

You say that you're not a modeller/sculptor, but perhaps others may want to tackle this issue?

BTW: not Chasseurs but hussars (and I can't vouch for the uniforms' authenticity though they capture the 'feel'), but I can't resist posting the duels from 'The Duellist' which gives a good idea of hussar clothing and, as the duels progress the cadenettes disappear (the first duel is 1800, the last military one 1806).

If you haven't seen the film, catch up with them here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL34VEj4fSQnPyt1yZqwPZ3372GEiiYpxe

The whole thing (originally a Conrad short story) is based on these two nutters who fought 30 duels between 1794 and 1813 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Dupont_de_l'Étang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Fournier-Sarlovèze

 

[Paul Kernan]

This and Geoff's thread have been a great conversation and reference source. A real education

To recap then (and please correct me if I'm wrong).......Improve the authenticity of the Chassuer by addressing the following
1) no cadenettes
2) remove the lateral cord but not the cord/flounder on the colpack
3) orientate the flounder approx 45deg to give a diamond appearance to the design
4) cord/lacing - gold thread (officer) and yellow (all ranks)
OR
leave well enough alone and portray the bust as one of the Hussar regiments

 

[Richard Baxter]

Paul,

The colour of braid, etc for other ranks should be aurore, not yellow. Aurore is a bit of an elusive shade: it literally means "dawn" and is best described as orange with a tinge of pink. Think of the colour of a sunrise!

 

[Cannonball]

Hi Neal, Neil here...

First off: a GREAT paint-job so far and I'm sure it will end up fantastic (and good to see others progressing in their various different styles).

At the risk of (again) being accused of rivet counting, I agree with Ivo about about the cadenettes, as I said in my earlier posting, they'd disappeared by the mid/late Empire and as Ivo points out, lots of portraits show them 'sans-cadenettes' (so this guy must be very early or a hangover).

I also still have an issue with the way raquettes/flounders are portrayed (generally, not just on this figure). See my earlier posting and also Ivo's 2nd ref which clearly shows their intricate structure.

You say that you're not a modeller/sculptor, but perhaps others may want to tackle this issue?

BTW: not Chasseurs but hussars (and I can't vouch for the uniforms' authenticity though they capture the 'feel'), but I can't resist posting the duels from 'The Duellist' which gives a good idea of hussar clothing and, as the duels progress the cadenettes disappear (the first duel is 1800, the last military one 1806).

If you haven't seen the film, catch up with them here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL34VEj4fSQnPyt1yZqwPZ3372GEiiYpxe

The whole thing (originally a Conrad short story) is based on these two nutters who fought 30 duels between 1794 and 1813 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Dupont_de_l'Étang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Fournier-Sarlovèze

Hi Neil, really appreciate the comments. As you say, if the points made in this thread re the “faults” are beneficial to others who decide to tackle it then that is great and I would look forward to seeing any converted ones on the site. The knowledge and help provided by members on this site never ceases to impress me.

Neal.

 

[Cannonball]

This and Geoff's thread have been a great conversation and reference source. A real education

To recap then (and please correct me if I'm wrong).......Improve the authenticity of the Chassuer by addressing the following
1) no cadenettes
2) remove the lateral cord but not the cord/flounder on the colpack
3) orientate the flounder approx 45deg to give a diamond appearance to the design
4) cord/lacing - gold thread (officer) and yellow (all ranks)
OR
leave well enough alone and portray the bust as one of the Hussar regiments

Hi Paul, I think that’s about it although agree with Richard that the troopers braid is aurore as he describes.

Neal

 

[Paul Kernan]

Richard and Neil....thanks guys. Much appreciated

 

[ivopreda]

the typical look of the chasseur is well depicted by Rousselot in his book about the guard cavalry. The below show them in full parade

Checking the difference with the sculpt... no tressed hair, no cords on the busby, no raquette on the pelisse sling.

good details than can be added are ear rings that was very common

here the officer version that has the raquette

during a trip in Paris i took some pictures of the mennequin of the guard chasseur at musee de l'Armèè...it shows a sergeant with red and green laces.

interesting to see the coulor AURORE... looking at the saddle lace, at the eagle and at the sabretache... all of them are defined AURORE... means that the colors depend from the supplier and is very variable

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys

I agree with Pauls comment ....." A real education "

Absolutely masses of information and links , great pictures , all very helpful to all

No matter what version you choose ...you will have a fine display piece

Happy benchtime

Nap

 

[Cannonball]

the typical look of the chasseur is well depicted by Rousselot in his book about the guard cavalry. The below show them in full parade

Checking the difference with the sculpt... no tressed hair, no cords on the busby, no raquette on the pelisse sling.

good details than can be added are ear rings that was very common

View attachment 370783

View attachment 370784 here the officer version that has the raquette

during a trip in Paris i took some pictures of the mennequin of the guard chasseur at musee de l'Armèè...it shows a sergeant with red and green laces.

interesting to see the coulor AURORE... looking at the saddle lace, at the eagle and at the sabretache... all of them are defined AURORE... means that the colors depend from the supplier and is very variable

View attachment 370781View attachment 370782

More brilliant reference material. Really appreciated Ivo.

Neal

 

[Cannonball]

Hi Guys

I agree with Pauls comment ....." A real education "

Absolutely masses of information and links , great pictures , all very helpful to all

No matter what version you choose ...you will have a fine display piece

Happy benchtime

Nap

Couldn’t agree more Nap.


Neal

 

[NeilW]

​

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1) no cadenettes​

2) remove the lateral cord but not the cord/flounder on the colpack​

3) orientate the flounder approx 45deg to give a diamond appearance to the design​

4) cord/lacing - gold thread (officer) and yellow (all ranks)​

OR​

leave well enough alone and portray the bust as one of the Hussar regiments​

​

​

​

​

Agree with 1/2 (though evidence suggests that some high ranking officers may have worn colpack cords)​

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3) it's more a matter of getting rid of the 'woven place mat' look with its vertical/horizontal chequerboard effect and the border and replacing with something more like the original (technically knotted rather than woven): see:​

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4) gold for officers but as Richard and Ivo have said, the elusive and unstable/variable 'aurore' for troopers, not yellow​

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As for modelling as a hussar: it seems more reasonable although some of the same issues arise by the mid/late empire.​

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Some old hands may well have hung on to their cadinettes despite regulations demanding shorter, more hygienic hair (there was also the 'love-lock' variant where the long plaited 'dogs-ear' was looped up rather than left just hanging) and, as Ivo points out, earrings were fashionable in the early period.​

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As I understand it, only elite squadrons of hussars wore colpacks, though officers often wore them as a fashion and sappeurs, trumpeters etc were often blinged up with them (colpacks were officially banned in 1812, but as usual, many ignored the new regs). Most (but not all) illustrations I can find (eg Jouineau's and Rousselet's well researched works) show them without colpack cords except for some senior officers and trumpeters. I won't post loads of pics but try a scroll through Fogies 'slink' here... eg. see here and here.​

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Either way, their raquettes/flounders are still modelled incorrectly.​

 

[Richard Baxter]

I agree with everything that has been said about the quality and depth of information that has been provided by PF members in response to this thread. There is so much knowledge out there, it would be the envy of professional historians. However, I do still find it curious that we have such a discussion about one of the best-known units in Napoleon's army. You would think that it should be so well-known and documented that there should be little room for misinterpretation, even allowing for variations of uniform and kit in the field and some of the wilder accessorising by officers. Fascinating though.