Manufacturers please don't feed the recasters

[Claude Portsmouth]

I have just joined the forum after hovering around for a considerable time. There have been some “interesting” threads on the subject of recasters lately. The debate has been lively and I thought I might throw some thoughts into the pot. In view of the understandable emotions generated previously I have given a lot of thought to this my first post and hope that it will be taken in the spirit in which it is intended.

I thought I would raise some points about the marketing of products by the producers and respond to some of the comments and information seen on the forum.

Markets, and by definition products are impossible to predict, ask anyone if they saw the price of oil dropping by 40% in the last 3 months and the answer even from the keenest pundits will be no!.

So my first plea to the suppliers is don’t try to beat the market. What do I mean by that?

It seems to me that if you go to the expenditure of bringing a product to market then you need to keep it in the public domain as long as possible to maximise sales. Is there an impatience, perhaps even petulance that if something doesn’t sell immediately then I’ll withdraw it? almost as though it is taken as an insult that it is not selling.

Personally I never see this as the case, with the abundance of new releases and having limited funds at any given time then sometimes I am often unable to afford a certain kit. Then when I have the funds to my dismay it has been withdrawn. Is this an attempt to beat the market? Perhaps trying to induce immediate sales and create a climate of fear? Perhaps one of the manufacturers will respond? Possibly it is a question of inventory limitations or maybe it is more fun bringing things to market than selling them?

I find it hard to believe that any product in our small market will fail to cover its cost given sufficient exposure.

Another area which could be described as trying to beat the market is Limited Editions. Can I be bold and question the rationale here? Is this an attempt to induce immediate sales ensuring the rapid demise of a product and opening the door to the next? How many more could have been sold if the door was left open?

A good example of this is the very popular minuteman produced as a show limited edition of 250 a couple of years ago. With sales now exhausted it is now being recast and offered on Ebay. The last one sold last week on Ebay for in excess of £40 and not surprisingly another one has been listed and how many more will follow?

Some interesting costing figures were posted recently. Even the most liberal of analysis will show that no-one is making a fortune. If the person who posted recently about prices and recasting had taken the trouble to carry out an analysis of the figures he could have driven a coach and horses through his own argument.

So in conclusion my plea to the manufacturers is,

1. Have confidence in your products, you spend considerable time and effort bringing your fabulous creations to market, please give us time to buy them.
2. Scrap the Limited Editions for the same reason, who knows how many sales have been lost to Recasters
3. Don’t short sell your products and give the opportunity to recasters to step in and take the sales of the products you have withdrawn.
4. Don’t withdraw a product just because some villain is recasting it, we genuine modellers will buy it.............just give us time. If it is withdrawn then the danger is those who want it badly enough will be drawn to the recaster.
5. Keeping products live enables the commissioning of your products and supports the painters who rely on the hobby and you for income.
   
   Have patience, we warmly appreciate the efforts you make on our behalf, the joy that both you and we experience from your products, and rest assured are all doing our best to keep you in business and will continue to do so in 2015.
   
   Best regards to everyone in this festive season,
   
   Claude

 

[Gra30]

Hi Claude,
I will answer briefly as I have fallen into your category and will explain why I did as you mentioned.
I cast and mould myself, a mould has a limited working life but also shelf life. If it is not selling then sometimes ( I have only done this once) and In particular a big piece I had, I was not prepared to remould once the intial casts were done as it was a lot of rubber, 2-3 kg for just the body top half. I therefore decided to cast the mould out and to cut my loses. Yes I am left with some casts but I will sell these at shows etc. it will be removed from my website as I don't want to fall down by advertising and if a mould tears some months or even weeks down the line I will have to remould just to fulfil an order.
As my range grows, my number of moulds grow but also the moulds that need replacing. If a mould is replaced you need to ensure that sales will cover the new rubber and that is before any profit on the actual kit and so it is. A good gauge is how the piece initially sells as to whether to keep it in a range.
Limited in my case is no extra costs, but again it is to keep my mould production realistic. I am a pretty small company but still have over 50-60 individual masters either in production or coming, to keep all those in production is unrealistic for the reason I have given and so to weed, withdraw and limit castings is just practical, or I would be remoulding the range constantly and hoping the sales cover the rubber costs each time.
Best wishes and a very merry Christmas, you do have, I agree have some very valid points, as said my take is really for practical reasons

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

Thank you for taking the trouble to respond Graham. I can understand your dilemma with the large figure, but surely sales are going to be less frequent with the large figures because of the price. I think you had these at Euro and with so much competition at the show is it not understandable that the money is spread quite thin. Have you become disheartened too quickly? and taking it off the website has spelled certain death for a figure you have spent so much effort and cost in bringing to market.

Believe me I can appreciate your dilemma but the Post Militaire and David Grieve figures still sell after several years and are still in the catalogue (your comment to me) , so why the haste to get new releases off the market so quickly. Low sales now might mean steady sales over a longer period if you withdraw it you will never know?

Perhaps anyone reading this might be enticed to buy one, I can't even remember what it looks like (how about posting a picture) but I know you had some lovely new stuff on the stand at Euro....I did buy one piece by the way...LOL

Claude

 

[1969]

Hi Claude,
You have brought up some good points and from reading your post I can see you have put a lot of thought into what you have said.
I am in the same situation as Gra, as I suspect are most of the small figure companies which probably make up about 90% of the industry, there are very few large companies. Most if not all the small companies are ran by a single person who might be involved in all the processes of bringing a product to market, including sculpting, casting, box art etc. For every aspect of the work that you contract out you are creating a higher price for even a return on your investment, let alone profit, this forces a lot of the smaller companies to bring everything in house. Obviously for this reason you have to divide your time around the various aspects of the trade which means you cannot keep a figure running forever, as Gra has mentioned keeping up with moulds is a very time consuming and expensive job so it makes sense to remove older lines to allow for newer ones. I have about 70 + scale weapons I produce and still expanding, each one requiring a minimum of 2 moulds, so as you can see it takes a lot of effort and space to keep things running.

I am in the process of releasing a 1/9 scale full figure (link) to market in January, this will be limited to just 25 castings... WHY ? well because initially it was intended as a one-off sculpt for a friend, I decided to cast it for a limited run so I can allow others who might enjoy it to own one, it is a very time consuming and expensive figure to produce so I cannot keep it in production, it's just the situation I am afraid.

All the best
Steve

 

[Foxwood Figures]

Hello Claude,
A really good link and both Graham and Steve have covered part of the problem.

Foxwood Figures is a little different (long story!) in that we buy "out of production figures" and one of the biggest factors in businesses selling older figures to us is room: as Steve has pointed out, most of us are very small businesses run from home and room becomes a factor.

Another is cash flow. New figures sell more quickly than older ones and therefore, on a like-for-like basis, the time and cost put into making a casting of a new figure will generate more cash more quickly than on older ones. For most small businesses, cash is king
.
Finally, in some instances, older figures are not always as good as newer ones. Their is little point in bringing back out a figure that is some years old when another business has brought out a newer version of a similar one, especially in such a competitive market. A number of the masters we acquire have to be "updated" before we can release them to make them more competitive. Others have been damaged in the mould making process. In some instances therefore their are additional costs to be incurred in bringing out older figures compared to newer ones.

In essence therefore it is down to storage size, costs and cash flow.

Look forward to seeing other manufacturers comments.

Happy New year to all members.

Regards,

Jackie
Foxwood Figures

 

[kevininpdx]

An excellent article. I wish producers would avoid limited editions. I'm regetting not picking up the Pegaso 75mm mounted Richard I. The cost of replacing molds is a reality though.

 

[stu]

As stated previously....recasters dont wont slow sellers they pick the ones that sell....they are not stupid.....why recast a crap selling figure...it would be madness even at the low selling cost.

People buy recasts because they want the "it" kit now but cheaper its that simple !!!!!

No manufacturer feeds recasters they just steel our good ideas and leave us with the slow selling stuff taking the milk out of our good stuff.

Stuart

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I .........................

Im sorry but this seems to me that you have come to the point where you blame the victims.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

Hi Janne,

It may be the idiosyncrasy of language but I was very careful to put a point of view which didn't lay blame at any door. I merely looked at the situation from a buyers perspective questioning some of the actions taken by the Manufacturers. It has also given them time to reflect and respond which I am pleased to see they have with an inside point of view which has explained many of their actions and marketing policy.

Nothing more or less was intended in the post which has had many views and until now no negative reaction. I hope that it has provided food for thought and empathy towards the smaller manufacturers who are struggling against the current plague of recasting. I for one will be much more sympathetic to their plight and try to bring forward purchases of new releases.

For the future it will be the manufacturers choice on how they play this, the recasters will not go away, as the world economic situation deteriorates people in depressed economies will find a way to make money usually at someone else's expense and Ebay provides the perfect platform. It may well be that some Manufacturers will just give up, others will take their place for exactly the same reason. We are in difficult times running a small business is not easy and will not get any easier....it all depends at the end of the day on why you do it and what you want to get out of it.

Thank you for your responses.

Claude.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

At the end of the day, why should a producer behave in the manner you suggest to avoid being the victim of a crime?

What is next step, buy protection from recasters?

Problem is not the figure companies. Its first and formely criminal casters and then the neglect from trading sites such as Ebay.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

I'm not aware that I am suggesting specific action by any manufacturer? where did you read that?

Some will pack up others will take their place, it's been happening for years and it's the way markets work. All the posts on Planet Figure until now and in the future won't make the recasters go away. They and Ebay are a fact of life manufacturers will have to live with or give up sad as it is. I won't buy from them but others will........fact of life.

Claude

 

[Uruk-Hai]

In your initial post!

So in conclusion my plea to the manufacturers is,

1. Have confidence in your products, you spend considerable time and effort bringing your fabulous creations to market, please give us time to buy them.
2. Scrap the Limited Editions for the same reason, who knows how many sales have been lost to Recasters
3. Don’t short sell your products and give the opportunity to recasters to step in and take the sales of the products you have withdrawn.
4. Don’t withdraw a product just because some villain is recasting it, we genuine modellers will buy it.............just give us time. If it is withdrawn then the danger is those who want it badly enough will be drawn to the recaster.
5. Keeping products live enables the commissioning of your products and supports the painters who rely on the hobby and you for income.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

No problem for me if a manufacturer chooses these actions it is his/her choice....my view is the frustration it can cause for the customer and it was a personal view from a customers perspective. At the end of the day it is their choice, I just thought it was worth pointing out the negative reactions that may come as a result of their actions. There is no point in withdrawing products prematurely and then bitching about recasters.

I repeat, I do not knowingly buy from Recasters.
I'm not aware that asking them to give me time to save the money to buy them is an instruction-more of a plea
The Manufacturers can behave exactly as they please...............but some of the possible consequences are as listed in my original post as you have pointed out.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

And again you more or less blame the victims for being ripped off. Its like blaming a rapevictim that it was her on fault. She shouldnt have a ****.

If you are ripping people off, a lawsuit isnt the worst scenario. Sooner or later you gonna rip the wrong person off.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson