WIP Maori bust in progress

[Canoehead]

Hi Brian

Kudos on tackling ta moko.

I’ve tried to paint tartan and all kinds of complex camouflage schemes over the years, but nothing comes close to the precision and complexity of facial tattoos.

I would support Mike’s advice regarding fading the colour slightly. I would also suggest you consider using your flesh tone colour to fill the areas between the outer lines that define the pattern shape, and then add a single line of tattoo colour equi-distant from the two outer lines. At the moment it looks like a slightly green colour has been used the fill those gaps.

Would you like to share your references for the ta moko design? What’s the story behind it?

Keep going Brian. You’re doing a great job.

Thanks for the encouragement and the advice, Tony. At present I'm just waiting for the current work to dry before going back in to try more detailing and fading. I'll give your suggestions a go,however, and see what I can do.

In terms of the story behind the ta moko on this bust, I've kinda taken bits and pieces from several photos and paintings of different individuals. This one is the main one I've been using as inspiration, although my (in)ability to paint fine detail is limiting the accuracy I can achieve. One thing's for sure, no one will ever mistake my work for Lindauer's!

Again, thanks for the support - this is definitely challenging!

 

[Steve Ski]

I'm just catchin up here, Brian, it's all looking really good. I'm no expert on these tats by any means, but I know once the oils set up and they tone down some a lot of the nuances will become more visible. Like Mike said, taking pics and looking at them close up will bring out all the details. I'm always finding spots missed when reexamining my work from the desk top.

You've got one steady hand, that's for sure. This is really looking good from here! Ruck On, Bby!

P.S. At least yur not working a tartan, HA!

 

[Canoehead]

I'm just catchin up here, Brian, it's all looking really good. I'm no expert on these tats by any means, but I know once the oils set up and they tone down some a lot of the nuances will become more visible. Like Mike said, taking pics and looking at them close up will bring out all the details. I'm always finding spots missed when reexamining my work from the desk top.

You've got one steady hand, that's for sure. This is really looking good from here! Ruck On, Bby!

P.S. At least yur not working a tartan, HA!

Thanks Ski - dunno about the steady hand part but I appreciate the kind comments and encouragement; just don't look too closely!

Cheers,
Brian

 

[Steve Ski]

You're good, Brother, I'm not worried. Forge onward!

Hey, just a note of technique I personally use: all of my oils are thinned on the palate as I use them. I never use any wicking of any sort to suck up the oil, just lay out the colors and use a standard run of the mill paint thinner as I'm applying specific tones. Strange, I've been doing this for over 35yrs and my oils are dry within 3-5 days, most often "right away", depending on the thickness of layer, of course. I'm not sure I can give Mike a technical analysis of this process, but it's been working really well for me for a long time. Ya know he's analytical, right?

Long story short, might you consider thinned oils for these tats so you can work them quicker as you see fit, especially when adding those minute tonal detail? Everybody has his own "style" or technique, but thinning the oils will speed up your process, IMHO. Now, remembering that oils can be cleaned off if needs be, as you know, so if you did a clear coat to protect that awesome work before the tats, you're well on our way. If not, it's only a matter of being a bit more delicate, no worries.


I'm just your average oiler, but I was thinkin ya might want to know a few of my personal tricks from the bunker bag. I am enjoying this build, to say the least.

Ruck On Bby! Cheers, Ski.

 

[Canoehead]

You're good, Brother, I'm not worried. Forge onward!

Hey, just a note of technique I personally use: all of my oils are thinned on the palate as I use them. I never use any wicking of any sort to suck up the oil, just lay out the colors and use a standard run of the mill paint thinner as I'm applying specific tones. Strange, I've been doing this for over 35yrs and my oils are dry within 3-5 days, most often "right away", depending on the thickness of layer, of course. I'm not sure I can give Mike a technical analysis of this process, but it's been working really well for me for a long time. Ya know he's analytical, right?

Long story short, might you consider thinned oils for these tats so you can work them quicker as you see fit, especially when adding those minute tonal detail? Everybody has his own "style" or technique, but thinning the oils will speed up your process, IMHO. Now, remembering that oils can be cleaned off if needs be, as you know, so if you did a clear coat to protect that awesome work before the tats, you're well on our way. If not, it's only a matter of being a bit more delicate, no worries.


I'm just your average oiler, but I was thinkin ya might want to know a few of my personal tricks from the bunker bag. I am enjoying this build, to say the least.

Good advice - wish I'd taken it earlier ! As it is, using the oils with a bit of body to them might have the hidden advantage of making the tattooed area a bit rougher, almost simulating the scarring that was caused by the piercing technique used by pre-20th C tohunga ta moko artists - do I sound like I'm desperately grasping at straws? You betcha I am!

Cheers,
Brian

 

[Nap]

Loving this WIP Brian

Your a braver man than me ...but I do love this bust

Great replies from members

This is a excellent book to read as well


Questions to those that know ...

Are the tattoos " awarded " or added as men grow up i.e reaching a certain age ?

Are they restricted to men ?

Would it be wrong if anyone painted this bust with no tattoos?

Look forward to seeing more

Happy benchtime

Nap

 

[Canoehead]

Loving this WIP Brian

Your a braver man than me ...but I do love this bust

Great replies from members

This is a excellent book to read as well


Questions to those that know ...

Are the tattoos " awarded " or added as men grow up i.e reaching a certain age ?

Are they restricted to men ?

Would it be wrong if anyone painted this bust with no tattoos?

Look forward to seeing more

Happy benchtime

Nap

View attachment 451812

There's a fine line between brave and stupid, Kev - don't quite know which side of the line I'm on at the moment.

Will continue to bash on - can't get worse...can it?...oh boy...

Cheers,
Brian

 

[Steve Ski]

do I sound like I'm desperately grasping at straws? You betcha I am! Cheers, Brian

Na, you're mentally prepping for the inevitable, nothing wrong with that. It took me a few weeks to get up the nerve to work thosee tartans, and I'm still not happy with my reasults, but they will have to suffice.

Ruck On, I say, Ruck On!

 

[Mike - The Kiwi]

Loving this WIP Brian
Your a braver man than me ...but I do love this bust
Great replies from members

This is a excellent book to read as well


Questions to those that know ...

Are the tattoos " awarded " or added as men grow up i.e reaching a certain age ?

Are they restricted to men ?

Would it be wrong if anyone painted this bust with no tattoos?

Look forward to seeing more

Happy benchtime

Nap

View attachment 451812

Agree Nap, a really good thread Brian is encouraging us to be involved in.

Ref your queries, thoughts from my experience:

Awarded?
ta Moko was recognition of whakapapa (family tree), prowess in battle & indicated status. It could evolve as warrior’s story was told & was unique to every individual.
My understanding was that design could be more basic for younger warrior, then added to as he aged.
More here: https://www.tepapa.govt.nz/discover...o-maori-tattoos-history-practice-and-meanings

Restricted to males?.
Wahine Female have Moko kauae on lips & chin.
There has been revival this century so more common to see this special art & cultural symbol.
https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article...ri-women-talk-about-their-sacred-chin-tattoos

Without ta Moko?
Yes quite conceivable as it practice was suspended effectively from end of NZ Wars 1860’s until late 20th Century. Sadly discrimination was rife throughout last century & many aspects of Māori language & culture were downplayed in an effort to eliminate in a naieve attempt at ‘assimilation’. Today we celebrate 50years since Māori was recognised as a National Language & this has led to a revival with ta Moko & Moko kauae proudly being worn as most obvious outward symbol of this revitalised culture.

Trust that helps & is of interest.
MikeTheKiwi

 

[Canoehead]

Although it's in French, I found this diagram showing the face divided into "sectors" and what the moko in each sector indicated about the person's life story. Can't verify its accuracy but it seems to accord with what I've read elsewhere.

Glad my/our little project is stimulating some great learning and collaboration all around - the (retired) history teacher in me couldn't be more pleased, regardless of what the bust turns out looking like!

Thanks again all for the great input.

Brian

 

[Mike - The Kiwi]

Although it's in French, I found this diagram showing the face divided into "sectors" and what the moko in each sector indicated about the person's life story. Can't verify its accuracy but it seems to accord with what I've read elsewhere.

Glad my/our little project is stimulating some great learning and collaboration all around - the (retired) history teacher in me couldn't be more pleased, regardless of what the bust turns out looking like!

Thanks again all for the great input.

Brian

Beaut sketch Brian & yep you are certainly helping us all learn.
That’s a super little sketch.
Tried to find similar in English - no luck but this was helpful site:
https://www.zealandtattoo.co.nz/tattoo-styles/maori-tattoo/
Keep it coming!
MikeTheKiwi

 

[Nap]

Hi Brian

Fascinating to see the areas and the meanings

Nice link from Mike as well

Very interesting thread

Happy benchtime

Nap

 

[Canoehead]

Not a huge amount of change, but I added a couple of embellishments and tried to reduce the green-ness of some of the filled-in areas with more flesh tones as per Tony's and Mike's advice. Also trying to suggest some thinner lines as well. From normal viewing distance, it's looking a bit better. Taking some time to let the oils set up before trying to further increase the skin tone in between the the darker lines.

 

[Steve Ski]

Looks like you're pounding this one to home plate! I really like how this is coming out, Brian!

 

[Nap]

Looks like you're pounding this one to home plate! I really like how this is coming out, Brian!

I think Ski means it's nearly finished .....lol

Agree with him , all credit to you for the tattoos , reducing the green adds lots to the overall look

Nap

 

[Canoehead]

I think Ski means it's nearly finished .....lol

Agree with him , all credit to you for the tattoos , reducing the green adds lots to the overall look

Nap

Thanks, gents - as to "nearly finished", we'll see...

Started in on the feathers tonight but will return to the face...again...and again...and...

Cheers

 

[Mike - The Kiwi]

Thanks for the encouragement and the advice, Tony. At present I'm just waiting for the current work to dry before going back in to try more detailing and fading. I'll give your suggestions a go,however, and see what I can do.
In terms of the story behind the ta moko on this bust, I've kinda taken bits and pieces from several photos and paintings of different individuals. This one is the main one I've been using as inspiration, although my (in)ability to paint fine detail is limiting the accuracy I can achieve. One thing's for sure, no one will ever mistake my work for Lindauer's!
Again, thanks for the support - this is definitely challenging!
View attachment 451753 View attachment 451769

Keen to ensure Whakapapa & provenance shown here for ta moko that inspired Brian's miniature painting:

Chief of Wanganui district. Lived at Rānana, Wanganui River. Died 1903. ​

Portrait of Rangitupu Take (Maori chief), taken by W H T PartingtonConsidered to be last chief in region with full moko. He was much photographed in the 1890s, at which time he appeared to be in his 60s or 70s. ​

Note on back of file print of photograph 1/2-020056 reads: "Taketake from Tawhitinui and Hiruharama [Jerusalem]​

​

Not a huge amount of change, but I added a couple of embellishments and tried to reduce the green-ness of some of the filled-in areas with more flesh tones as per Tony's and Mike's advice. Also trying to suggest some thinner lines as well. From normal viewing distance, it's looking a bit better. Taking some time to let the oils set up before trying to further increase the skin tone in between the the darker lines.

That's really helped improve overall effect Brian - well done!
Overall composition with fine tuning & finished elements should really work.
Good on you for taking onboard feedback as you go.
Always tough as I can appreciate effort you have put in here.
MikeTheKiwi

​

 

[grasshopper]

This is wonderful dialogue. And excellent results…

 

[Canoehead]

Keen to ensure Whakapapa & provenance shown here for ta moko that inspired Brian's miniature painting:

Chief of Wanganui district. Lived at Rānana, Wanganui River. Died 1903. ​

Portrait of Rangitupu Take (Maori chief), taken by W H T PartingtonConsidered to be last chief in region with full moko. He was much photographed in the 1890s, at which time he appeared to be in his 60s or 70s. ​

Note on back of file print of photograph 1/2-020056 reads: "Taketake from Tawhitinui and Hiruharama [Jerusalem]​

​

That's really helped improve overall effect Brian - well done!
Overall composition with fine tuning & finished elements should really work.
Good on you for taking onboard feedback as you go.
Always tough as I can appreciate effort you have put in here.
MikeTheKiwi

​

Awesome that you found the story of the gentleman in the photo, Mike. Thanks for acknowledging his cultural importance and unique identity; hope I'm doing justice and due respect with our little project.

Will try a bit more final fine tuning on the ta moko; very conscious now of slipping into negative progress territory and messing up a pretty good thing as it stands.

The feedback from all concerned has been invaluable and is greatly appreciated - this has been completely terra incognita for me, so it's been nice to have a great supporting crew along for the trip (thus endeth the clumsy explorer metaphor !)

On to the short strokes, methinks.

Cheers

 

[jimz66]

Very nice work on this one Brian. Looking forward to seeing it finished