Wayneb
A Fixture
Masterful paint job so far;..I'm sure that a man with your talent will work out the anatomical problems also.....Best regards......Wayne
WIP Mike's WW1 NZRB Lewis Gunner Bust in 1\6th
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Mike - The Kiwi
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Wow Mike, The painting is really outstanding! I would call it "unreal" but, in fact, it is quite realistic!
I have to agree with Ulrich though: the head and neck look unnatural the way they are posed. The neck seems too upright and the head twisted at an awkward angle. ... The way the figure has it so stiffly upright just looks wrong.
It would be a shame for such masterful painting to be spoiled by faulty assembly - or perhaps, an easily alleviated anatomical hiccup on the part for the sculptor....
Keep up the good work!Cheers!!
Stunning Mike, hope you can reposition the head without too much drama.
It's done!
After long diliberation, plus further comments from Carl & Wayne...
As Frankenstein gleefully looked on
I took a razor saw to Charlie's neck.
1/2 hr later he looked ruefully as if asking "What have I done" :-(
Then tucking his head safely under his arm he wonders what comes next...
With a little GreenTack repositioning begins.
He will now have a slight left looking glance, more in keeping with Mike's advice.
Afterall I'd be a brave man not to take on board Mike Good's advice ;-)
So the journey continues, time to break out the MagicSculpt!
Mike - The Kiwi
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Thanks to Ulrich, MikeG, Carl & Wayne for giving me a nudge to make a change.
I do hope this one more fairly represent the soldiers I'm trying to honour.Here's close up on Charlie's helmet with pencil graffiti based on a photo of NZRB 3rd Battalion out of line have a lunch & reading some German Propaganda in August 1917.
Ulrich
A Fixture
Upps. As I asked I never thought about that effects. Beg your pardon but now it looks much better.
Mike - The Kiwi
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Upps. As I asked I never thought about that effects. Beg your pardon but now it looks much better.
Ulrich, appreciate you challenging me when it didn't look right.
Let's see if I can sort it now
bonehead
A Fixture
Yikes!! I did not realize the head was already attached. Silly me! I am in the habit of leaving the head separate for painting and stuck on a wire pin that I can chuck into my pin-vise so that i can paint it off the figure. This has always made my life easier! It is a tip I recommend to one and all.
But, since you are already well "stuck-in", you still need to drop the head more FORWARD. The neck should tilt forward from the shoulders, and it is the upright position as much as the extra twist that made the neck look awkward. I hope you get this advice before any glue has made things even more difficult!
Mike, sorry I made your life more difficult! But I am glad to see you taking the bull by the horns and working to get things right. Good on ya mate!
I will watch this piece coming together. It looks to be a real treat in the end. That painting is spectacular!
Cheers!!
Mike
But, since you are already well "stuck-in", you still need to drop the head more FORWARD. The neck should tilt forward from the shoulders, and it is the upright position as much as the extra twist that made the neck look awkward. I hope you get this advice before any glue has made things even more difficult!
Mike, sorry I made your life more difficult! But I am glad to see you taking the bull by the horns and working to get things right. Good on ya mate!
I will watch this piece coming together. It looks to be a real treat in the end. That painting is spectacular!
Cheers!!
Mike
HI Mike i have this figure and the pilot bust to start and am very interested in the way you have done the hair and beard, i paint in oils and was wondering if this would work and how to go about doing it, do you just stipple the paint on to build up the texture? by the way yours is awesome, all the best roy.
Wayneb
A Fixture
Hey MIke,
Can't believe you did what I was thinking.Agree with "bonehead"(sorry just sounds disrespectful).
But yes ,if you pin it you have the option of moving and repositioning....funny thing....the more you lock into a piece the less you see.Not sure if I got this saying right...."Too close to the forest that you can't see the trees"?.....Anyway,I'm sure you're gonna nail it one way or another........regards.........Wayne
Can't believe you did what I was thinking.Agree with "bonehead"(sorry just sounds disrespectful).
But yes ,if you pin it you have the option of moving and repositioning....funny thing....the more you lock into a piece the less you see.Not sure if I got this saying right...."Too close to the forest that you can't see the trees"?.....Anyway,I'm sure you're gonna nail it one way or another........regards.........Wayne
kiwi45
Active Member
Brave man Mike, but I think you've taken the right direction, as I looked many times at the bust as you had it previously, I didn't need to say anything as more talented modellers than me got your attention.
I love the helmet with scrim, looks the business.
Cheers Les
p.s good luck the Chiefs
I love the helmet with scrim, looks the business.
Cheers Les
p.s good luck the Chiefs
Mike - The Kiwi
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Mike - The Kiwi
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I know exactly what you mean Wayne.
It doesn't seem possible to see the error & trust me I spent a lot of time rationalising why I should do anything ;-)
Good to have support coming through here & still hope I can do this justice!
Stay safe
Mike
tonydawe
A Fixture
Hi Mike,
Given how slowly you paint, this minor surgery is only going to slow down what is already becoming an epic project.
Thankfully the upside for me is that I get to see even more pics of your beautiful bust and marvel at how meticulous you are.
I love the helmet cover and the graffiti. Looking forward to seeing you fix the neck issues and move on to tackle the khaki uniform and the Lewis Gun.
Keep up the great work mate.
Given how slowly you paint, this minor surgery is only going to slow down what is already becoming an epic project.
Thankfully the upside for me is that I get to see even more pics of your beautiful bust and marvel at how meticulous you are.
I love the helmet cover and the graffiti. Looking forward to seeing you fix the neck issues and move on to tackle the khaki uniform and the Lewis Gun.
Keep up the great work mate.
Mike - The Kiwi
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Mike - Too late!
Sadly the more I work on this the more of a Pratt I become!
Comparing with originally sculpted head & your description shows me how spot on Naked army sculptor was & how silly I was to mess with this.
Yes normally would leave head off where practical to paint too, though as evidenced by my posts above, just didn't seem to know why limitations.
Very much on damage control & sadly no amount of paint can fix a poor sculpt ;-)
Thanks for hanging in there & your detailed explanatory notes.
I may not have been able to make most of these, but I'm sure others will f'sure.
let's see if I can rescue this one or pine for the day I have time to have another crack at it.
This is feeling like an old fashioned train wreck at moment :-(
More later,
Mike
Mike - The Kiwi
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Hi Mike & everyone here,
Your urgent help needed please with following questions:
- How is this repair job looking?
- Have I overdone length of Charlie's new neck?
- Does slope forward of neck look natural?
Nothing ventured, nothing gained on this project...
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Mike - The Kiwi
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And also please consider Charlie with his younger Aussie brother.
An untouched, original version of this bust.
In your opinion should Charlie survive in this current version with repositioned neck?
Scrappy iPhone photos to assist with problem solving only...
An untouched, original version of this bust.
In your opinion should Charlie survive in this current version with repositioned neck?
Scrappy iPhone photos to assist with problem solving only...
bonehead
A Fixture
Hello Mike,
Okay, here is a lousy photoshop "fix" showing a workable change to the neck. The first photo is yours, the second one was modified in photoshop to drop the head forward and rotate the neck forward from vertical.
The biggest problem with the neck is that it is perfectly vertical. That will never look right. That is because the neck normally tilts forward from the shoulders. That is also why G.I. Joe dolls always look so unnatural: they have straight necks just like this one. Look at any decent anatomy diagram or photos of real people. The neck angles forward from the shoulders. Sorry I cannot explain it any better than that. You have to look and see how this works.
Actually, the original neck on the figure was not good to begin with. It is too vertical in alignment. But the sculptor mitigated the problem by dropping the head forward within the collar area. Notice how the original sculpt has a gap between the back of the neck and the collar? This allowed the sculptor to get away with the vertical neck. But it still looks a bit "off" to my eye.
You might be able to get away with your neck IF you drop the head forward some more. That would be a fudge which, while not entirely correct, looks more or less okay. On my image, I also cut away the neck and rotated it so that it angled forward - not as much as it should - but enough to make things look less dicey. The other problem you are dealing with is the way the head is drawn back into the neck. If you actually rotated the present neck as it should be, the whole head would then turn downward (looking down). Not good.
If you want to do this right, the only solution is to sculpt a new neck. The old neck is the main source of your problems. But dropping the head forward within the collar would be a reasonable compromise solution. Without dropping the head forward, nothing you do will ever make it look right. That is why your present fix has not alleviated the problem.
If I had the thing in my hands, I could fix it in about a half hour. But you need to understand the problem to get it looking correct.
I hope this helps!
Okay, here is a lousy photoshop "fix" showing a workable change to the neck. The first photo is yours, the second one was modified in photoshop to drop the head forward and rotate the neck forward from vertical.
The biggest problem with the neck is that it is perfectly vertical. That will never look right. That is because the neck normally tilts forward from the shoulders. That is also why G.I. Joe dolls always look so unnatural: they have straight necks just like this one. Look at any decent anatomy diagram or photos of real people. The neck angles forward from the shoulders. Sorry I cannot explain it any better than that. You have to look and see how this works.
Actually, the original neck on the figure was not good to begin with. It is too vertical in alignment. But the sculptor mitigated the problem by dropping the head forward within the collar area. Notice how the original sculpt has a gap between the back of the neck and the collar? This allowed the sculptor to get away with the vertical neck. But it still looks a bit "off" to my eye.
You might be able to get away with your neck IF you drop the head forward some more. That would be a fudge which, while not entirely correct, looks more or less okay. On my image, I also cut away the neck and rotated it so that it angled forward - not as much as it should - but enough to make things look less dicey. The other problem you are dealing with is the way the head is drawn back into the neck. If you actually rotated the present neck as it should be, the whole head would then turn downward (looking down). Not good.
If you want to do this right, the only solution is to sculpt a new neck. The old neck is the main source of your problems. But dropping the head forward within the collar would be a reasonable compromise solution. Without dropping the head forward, nothing you do will ever make it look right. That is why your present fix has not alleviated the problem.
If I had the thing in my hands, I could fix it in about a half hour. But you need to understand the problem to get it looking correct.
I hope this helps!
Mike - The Kiwi
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Thanks again for extensive responses Mike.
Your patience with my learning is helping
How about if I remove a wedge from back of neck towards hair line then resculpt this so it's not so vertical?
I'll study some if your busts in my grey army, anatomy book & more photos in meantime.
Trying to do recovery surgery without damaging head paint, this adds an extra dimension of difficulty but confident I'll get somewhere soon
Talk again soon I trust.
Mike
bonehead
A Fixture
Thanks again for extensive responses Mike.
Your patience with my learning is helping
How about if I remove a wedge from back of neck towards hair line then resculpt this so it's not so vertical?
Mike,
It is counterproductive trying to "save" the offending part. Honestly, the easiest way to fix this is to cut off the offending neck from the back hairline to the front where the chin turns into the neck. Whatever is there is only getting in the way of making it right. Once you have done this, drill a hole into the bottom of the neck and insert a wire. This will give you something to hold onto (chuck it into a pin-vise). For this scale, it will take something more substantial. I use aluminum armature wire that i buy from an art store. It comes in 1/16th and 1/8th inch gauges. I would go with 1/16th here or something similar. It may be a little wobbly, but the extra flexibility will help. The wire will also help avoid some of the handling that can damage the paint.
Drill a similar hole into the neck area of the torso. Now, once you have that, you can insert the wire into your torso and play around with the angles and length of the wire. Make the wire longer than need be. It is easier to trim the wire to size than to make it too short and have to compensate later.
You will need this flexibility to get things right. Once you have that done, I can help you with positioning the head in a more natural way. Then, once the head is where you want it, it is but a simple matter to fill in the neck area with a blob of putty to hold things in their correct position. Once that has hardened, then you can do the actual outer surface of the neck.
That is how I would do it. To be honest, it will be difficult for me to help you unless you take this more drastic approach. The remnants of the neck attached to the head are the primary source of the problem and will never be part of a good solution.
