My Euro

[pinsel]

yes the camera
well while i still struggle with my painting sloppy paint to harsh contrast et ect....and iam the least one who can claim one self to be on an level of most painters here,i still get the creeps when i make pics.
while iam often quite happy with them when i look on them at natural light with an normal distance i iam near suicide when i make pics of them.
so i quit making pics simply because they look much better in real.
so iam only an real eye painter.and then my proud eye do not see my shortcomings:
but well brillaint pics do sell an figure and making pics is an art of its own kind.
cheers
i gave up making pics

 

[Andrew Craft]

Does Euro have an award for peoples choice. Where the public is given a vote on a single piece they like the best?

 

[gforceman]

periods

And then we haven't started about prefered periods. I know of many people who are asked to judge, not neccessairely at Euro, who look only at pieces from periods they like, or give more points to it. Or then you have those who think to be TOP experts about "their" periods and give less points to a figure which they believe to have a button to much, a seam not running correctly or whatever.

What I believe to be very important, at least to me, is to understand the "importance" of these medals : it just wants to say that this time you might be lucky that a number of people (a small number as normally no more than 3 judges for a categorie are used) like the way you paint. Next show might have a judge with a completely different taste and you go home empty handed. The opinion of some friends, not the asskissers who like everything, is much more important to me as I know they will speak the thruth, tell you what is good and not so good, how to improve, etc... All to often jdges give extra points to a certain piece because they know it's a piece of a friend. Or they don't give an award to a piece because they don't like that person!

And the utter most important to me : I do this to have fun, to relax and to have a world I can escape to when real life gets to heavy and I can forget all my worries.

So have fun from the moment you open the box to inspect the figure for the first time till the last touches you put on it and the great times you have presenting it to friends and discussing over it. Don't get discouraged or frustrated if you might not win something. It's not something that important.

And now I'm off thinking about what figure will be the next one to get some colour splashed on by me. So many idea's, yet I can only work at one at a time. Whaaa, which one shall I start next. All this modelling is giving such problems.... And solving them is fun too.

Take care all of you and have fun in this little hobby of ours,

Gino

 

[Tecumsea]

"So have fun from the moment you open the box to inspect the figure for the first time till the last touches you put on it and the great times you have presenting it to friends and discussing over it. Don't get discouraged or frustrated if you might not win something. It's not something that important."

Well said Gino and thanks put bringing a sense of perspective to all of this, at the end of the day judging is not a perfect science and sometimes the frailty's of human nature get in the way, but it is only a hobby to the majority of us, and the ability to share our passion for our hobby with our friends at shows like Euro is priceless. I think that was where Brian was coming from in his original post.

Keith

 

[jmpva]

Comments from a new guy...
I enjoy topics like this. I didn't go to the show, so I don't know the people who's work I admire so much. When I read their thoughts on subjects like this, it's like talking to the person themselves. I even like the photos that show the vendors and artist with their names. It's likely to be the closest I ever get to them.
A few of the pieces to me almost have a painting-on-velet look. Extreme color on extreme black shadow. Nothing subtle about it. Still looks cool though.
I was at a major figure show years ago when I heard a couple of world-class famous guys comment to one another (after losing BOS), "the biggest figure wins I guess". It involved a flying dragon.....
Can't help but smile when I saw the photo of this years winner. It's not even military.

That must piss some off!!
Personally....If I sit there in awe of the figure,display,subject,paint,you name it. It's something worth displaying.

BTW, I am honored that someone took the time to sculpt a figure of me sitting on my couch at home....watching TV.
You guys are the greatest!!

 

[Figure Mad]

Just want to point out that there are three or four cabinets around the competition room at Euro especially for the judges pieces....

I am interested in these points on style as I for one don’t judge on style, style is a personal thing, I judge the content, the anatomy, what has been achieved by the modeller, if its commercial, converted or scratch, but most of all the quality of workmanship, my personal preference does not come into it.....

But at the end of the day, I enjoy what I do, and do what I enjoy

Dave

 

[brian]

I'm very pleased with the input my topic has stimulated and can only be good for our hobby to discuss such matters.Thanks to ALL you guys for your thoughts.My biggest buzz has always come from my peers who comment on my figures,a lot more appreciated than medals.
Brian

 

[brian]

Hi Brian,

Great to see you the rest of the Scottish lads once again mate as it always is!!!!
No excuses needed mate. I agree with every point you have made.
We both stood outside on the balcony as i'm sure you remember and chatted about all you have mentioned in your thread mate, and I couldn't agree more!!!! There does seem to be a slightly worrying trend/clique/sinner sanctum devleloping. My only hope is that it doesn't get out of control!

I would like to see the judges made to put examples of there work in the cabinets around the room. This would achieve 2 things, it would bring crediblity to the judges and there ability to judge, and secondly eliminate some of the contravercial talking points.

Carl

I think a rotation of the judges each year so they don't always have the same old classes year in year out would be a step forward to eliminate the clique problem Carl.
It was great to see you again and chew the fat.
Brian

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I'm very pleased with the input my topic has stimulated and can only be good for our hobby to discuss such matters.Thanks to ALL you guys for your thoughts.My biggest buzz has always come from my peers who comment on my figures,a lot more appreciated than medals.
Brian

That is true, Brian. But remember that there are figurepainters out there with few or no friends in the hobby, that doesnt go to meetings or discuss the hobby or being active in forums.

For them, the only recognition are the rewards handed out at shows. For others that has business in the hobby its also important.

However, once you been to a few shows, you start to realize that sometimes you get more than your fair share and sometimes less. Usually the later.
Thats something we like to discuss the next year among friends over a pint. The more feedback and recongnition you get from your piers, the less important the medals become. Still I have to admit that I am very proud of the one I got last time I was at Euro Millitaire.

On the other hand we want fair judgement as many at Euro Millitaires is among the best there is in the hobby and to do justice to all entrants. Many has come from far away, especially us Scandinavian has started to raid Saxland, but these days we settle for rewards, unbuilt kit, AF-stuff and indian cuisine.

And then we haven't started about prefered periods. I know of many people who are asked to judge, not neccessairely at Euro, who look only at pieces from periods they like, or give more points to it. Or then you have those who think to be TOP experts about "their" periods and give less points to a figure which they believe to have a button to much, a seam not running correctly or whatever.
Gino

It sure is annoying to hear that judges dedacted points from your figure because they think they are the expert but in reality the detail was correct.

Or when the do it on the subjects they are specialized in only to have greater errors slip by on figures of other eras?

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[brian]

Hi Janne
I agree with what you say regarding not getting feedback from friends etc, hence medals are a good guide to what other people think of your painting skills.
Painting figures is a lonely hobby and thats part of why i like it.I have a couple of like minded friends but we're on an even par and rarely meet up so i don't seek their input and clubs are not my scene (big time).When it comes down to it when i finish a figure i share it on the forum and thats all.The medals are a bonus for me ,but maybe i can say this as i've had awards above my expectations in the past.
I wasn't dissapointed with my Euro results this year (highly commended being my highest award) as i aready knew that i've not been painting at my best for some time.
I had my worst results in 10 years but i had the best time i've EVER had at Euro and it's all thanks to the people i met up with.You know who you are!
Brian

 

[tonydawe]

Hi Brian,

An interesting hornets nest you've stirred up here mate, and one that seems to be forever debated in the wake of big shows.

I like Carl's suggestion of rotating the judges to avoid a small cliche of people becoming too influential -perhaps no person can judge for more than 3 years in a row in the same category,for example. Of course its preferable to have "experts" judging categories that they have experience and expertise in, but this also can lead to these experts becoming arbiters of style; rewarding with medals those modellers who follow their preferred style and punishing those who have their own style. This can have a toxic effect on the reputation of the show.

Judging at Euro last year was an honour and a priviledge for me and a real eye opener. I wasn't aware of any cliques or cabals within the judging fraternity, but then again I was easily distracted by all the beautiful figures and all the people I'd befriended. I learned a lot about the judging process and I've brought some of the lessons I learned from Euro back to WASMEx, our local show here in Perth.

The bottom line is that you had fun, you met lots of great people who share your passion for modelling and you are able to put your competition results into perspective.

I wish I could have been there mate.

 

[brian]

Hi Tony
I wish you had been there to Tony.When i lived in OZ i was awarded a large wooden spoon to hang on my wall by my Aussie mates,but i don't stir for the sake of it.I've received quite a few private messages agreeing with my sentiment ,it's just that i'm not afraid to stick my head above the parapet especially when it's about my beloved hobby.
How did the WA show go, mate?
Brian

 

[Don]

Like Brian I have just attended the best Euro, in my mind, in years. The whole weekend just rocked, good figures, good model armour, good traders and of course good friends.
It was great to meet up with the boys from Malta ( congratulations Ivan, very well deserved Gold) and to bump into people you hadnt met since last year, but it is like it was only yesterday.
I have to mention our mate Stephan, already mentioned by Brian. Stephan was like a dog with five tails and loved every minute of the show and certainly tried hard to fill the pockets of the traders. Derrek ( Del ) who entered a new era of transport history and will forever live in our thoughts. well done big man.
As for the judging and the styles some was wonderful and some was awful, like most years, but the white face effect spoils the figure for me. I saw a most wonderful mounted knight which was just superb. Horse, caparison, armour surcoat all superb work, white face for me just wasted all the painters work. Greek hopolite beautifully painted but the white effect made him look like he had just come from the hopolite hospital following a blood transfusion. A beautiful Zulu which I think got nothing but a zulu which was awarded had a basic yellow skin and a white stomach. I mentioned this and the word going about was that the "good" zulu painter knew nothing about zulu skin tones. I have worked with many Zulu and I know which one looked like a zulu and its not the white stomach.
Apart from that and a beautiful fairy not beeing awarded properly in my opinion I thought most of the judging was very good.
The above are my thoughts ( well it is My Euro) and I am sure many people dont agree and that is as it should be but I would hate to see anymore painters going to the white face effect.
All in all a wonderful weekend and my thanks go to everyone who helped make it so.

Don

 

[tonydawe]

Hey mate, it's good every once and a while to give the pot a stir with that big ol' wooden spoon. I'm sure many others out there agree with you too, but don't want to stick their heads above the parapet in case of snipers.

WASMEx was very successful and free of controversy over judging. Our approach is to keep it simple and fun and not take ourselves too seriously. We try our best to be fair, to reward effort and give lots of Highly Commended Certificates out to encourage people to keep trying. It's all about promoting a positive image of our hobby, not about medals.

 

[davidmitchell]

Your not alone with your ramblings as I would have to agree with most of what you are saying Brian.Having said that ,I had a truly wonderful weekend ,already looking forward to next year.



Cheers Davie

 

[smudger1960]

Hi guys,as dave has just stated i too had a great weekend (away from the wife) as well,i enjoy every euro i go to though,its just a great 2x days and i love folkestone as the location,i too have my rservations about the judging,although this must be a very difficult task i am certainly in agreement with there being a certain clique,as i queued up sat morning i got talking to 2x guys who wer'e already talking about this subject regarding the usual people will win medals,as for myself this is not sour grapes on my part as i was lucky to win a highly commended in 2007 which i'm really proud off,but it is disturbing to think this kind of thing is going on,anyway on a good note its only 360 days to go and we,ll be back again,cant wait

 

[brian]

Your not alone with your ramblings as I would have to agree with most of what you are saying Brian.Having said that ,I had a truly wonderful weekend ,already looking forward to next year.



Cheers Davie

This Euro was the most enjoyable i've ever been to Davy.
Brian

 

[Robin]

Hey up

I found this a fascinating thread to read, I am a little confused though to be honest.

When you say a clique is forming in the room Brian do you mean that you think groups of judges are pushing it towards a particular style in a particular class? or a group of judges judging different classes making sure a style comes across?

I think when you look at the higher medals in each class there are diffrent styles amongst the golds etc so doesn't this show contrary to a style being prevalent? and that as Dave says the judges are putting style to one side.

One thing I learned is second guessing judges at Euro or anywhere really is very difficult, you haven't looked at the figures the way the judges from that class have, not held and examined them for the length of time, looking from 3 or 4 feet away and making snap decisions on whether figures should have had higher medals is fools errand for me.....and from just the front, what if there's shall we say Glue runs or any number of things down the back, disallowing it from a higher medal or medal at all.

Lots of great points in this thread, Brian you don't need to be upset that you started it.

I too am looking forward to next Euro...

Robin

 

[brian]

Hi Robin
In no way am i suggesting certain judges were colluding in favour of a particular style, it couldn't be done for a start.Myself and 2 others judged the vignettes which was most rewarding and once finished had a quick look round at some of the stunning figures from the other classes.I'd noticed that there was some judges who were helping out with other classes other than their own allotted category which i'm not too keen on ,and i think it's about time that the judges in certain categorises who have been judging the same classes for many moons were given a different class to judge as then there would be less gripes.Rotating the judges would could be a step forward.
Again i must emphasize that it wasn't my best year for awards for me but thought i was judged fairly and got what my figures deserved as i knew beforehand that my painting was not up to my usual personal standard.
Thanks for your input Robin and rather being upset, i'm fascinated with the feedback this thread has generated
Brian

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Being a good painter or a good sculpturer doesnt automatically make you a good judge.
On the other hand, an average painter and sculpturer could make an excellent judge.

I have seen judges being chosen because of their skill, at Euro and other big events without having any previous experience in judging.

I have seen judges favor their own style and subjects. Others that are dominating the other judges to their own preference. Judges that still has the standard from 15 years ago as their guide. Some cant see differences in subjects over their own level? Some even seems to premit friends or painters with good merits a few year back in time?

Dont get me wrong, I aint saying that its easy, and minor mistakes will surely be made quite often. But we should always strive to get the very best of judging. Antyhing else would be disrespectful for the competitors in such a big show.

There are placings that you totally agree with. Then there are others that you can understand even if you wouldnt have ranked them yourself in that order. Then theres the placing that you dont agree with but with only minor aspects. And last, the ones you dont have a clue how the judges where thinking?

So, also the reaction on the judging should be in par with type of mistake you think has been made by the judges.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson