Naffed off

[Ronaldo]

Been working away for a week ,come home to find out that Pegaso has limited two of there best new projects this year to something like twenty or so lucky modellers .
I would have bought at least two of these new additions had I had the chance .

 

[Nap]

Naffed off ..I can well imagine

Wonder why they are limiting like this and how do they "select" the lucky 20 or so ??

Thought companies wanted to sell as many as possible !

Nap

 

[Helm]

Seems to be the new trend ltd editions, can't say as I am fan tbh. also think it postivly encourages re-casting
Steve

 

[Tecumsea]

Just downloaded from the White Rose club site..
CHRISTMAS NEW RELEASES! Artworks you will be proud to show in your cabinet, if you are fast enough to get one before we sold out.
To celebrate the upcoming Christmas with all of you, you'll get a big OFFER: for each of these models you buy, you'll get TWO COUPONS WITH 15% DISCOUNT for your next buy, one to be used in Pegaso Models and one to be used in Kimera Models.
You will find these coupons inside your boxes.
There are ONLY 25 PIECES in stock for each model, if you don't buy them now you'll have to wait until the next restock that will happen at a later date in 2019 and you also won't have the 15% discount coupons.
Remember that one of these releases is LIMITED EDITION (the Napoleonic Carabineer), that means that we will only print 299 copies of this release, ever. Each box will be numbered and when the 299th box is sold, you won't ever be able to get one of these. Some of the boxes were already sold in pre-release at Monte San Savino Show, so there are 274 copies left already before we retire the piece forever.
Inside each box you will also find the HISTORICAL RESEARCH about each model (and this is also true for every Pegaso release with the exception of the busts) that will help you making decisions about the painting of each part of the model. This will save you time and will help you making informed decisions about color schemes and materials.
These models are high quality casts, that will need only minimal cleaning and assembling, and they will look amazing in your cabinet even unpainted as all the people who were in Monte San Savino can easily testify. Painting an original high quality model is a relaxing experience and you will get an easier time doing it, without the need to struggle against bad casting, uneven surfaces, not well defined volumes that are hard to paint.
So let's recap:
1 - Each model will have TWO 15% discount coupon inside the box. One you can use to buy any Pegaso Model, one for any Kimera Model
2 - ONLY 25 PIECES of each models in stock, when they are sold out they'll return later in 2019
3 - The Napoleonic Carabineer is a limited edition, only 274 copies left and then it will be discountinued
4 - If you buy from us, you have access to our heroic customer care that will help you in any of your needs
5 - Shipping before Christmas (time of arrival depending on location though)
BUY THEM HERE:
GREEK ARGYRASPIDES (90mm)
http://www.pegasomodels.com/productdetails_en.asp?id=1032
Resin Kit
Sculpt: Luca Marras
Paint: Danilo Cartacci
Price: 92,75 Euro (VAT included)
NAPOLEONIC CARABINEER 1812 (75mm)
http://www.pegasomodels.com/productdetails_en.asp?id=1031
Limited Edition - 299 copies
metal and resin kit
Sculpt: Ebroin
Paint: Danilo Cartacci
Price: First 150 boxes at 146,4 Euro then the remaining at 183 Euro (VAT included)
The COSSACK (75mm)
http://www.pegasomodels.com/productdetails_en.asp?id=1029
Resin with some small metal parts
Sculpt: Lucas Bezzerra
Paint: Riccardo Agostini
Price: 45,37 Euro (VAT included)
HEYMES ADC OF NEY (54mm)
http://www.pegasomodels.com/productdetails_en.asp?id=1028
Metal with a resin part
Sculpt: Richard Galicek
Paint: Danilo Cartacci
Price: 94,87 (VAT included)
GERMAN WARRIOR (75mm)
http://www.pegasomodels.com/productdetails_en.asp?id=1030
Resin with some small metal parts
Sculpt: Alberto Acquaviva
Price: 45,37 Euro (VAT included)

 

[Tecumsea]

My take on this,

I find the comment about clean up of the casting interesting, they are obviously spooked by the quality of resin castings coming out of Russia. But my question is - if they are able to produce white metal castings with little or no clean up then why haven't they done this before? or is the substantial increase in price for the Carabineer because of this?. Looks like everyone is jumping on the Ltd Edition band wagon! It may be a cynical thought but maybe an initial release of 25 at 140+ euros + those sold on Pre-release is a way of covering some of the initial costs in case the recasters get hold of it-could be a sensible ploy?

 

[Ronaldo]

My take on this,

I find the comment about clean up of the casting interesting, they are obviously spooked by the quality of resin castings coming out of Russia. But my question is - if they are able to produce white metal castings with little or no clean up then why haven't they done this before? or is the substantial increase in price for the Carabineer because of this?. Looks like everyone is jumping on the Ltd Edition band wagon! It may be a cynical thought but maybe an initial release of 25 at 140+ euros + those sold on Pre-release is a way of covering some of the initial costs in case the recasters get hold of it-could be a sensible ploy?

I have seen recasts which are better than the original , because the re caster took the time to clean before recasting .

Problem now is the re casters are investing in high quality 3D print machines .

Whats to be done ? who knows

 

[Tecumsea]

I agree Ron, the market is oversupplied with product and technology is changing the shape of the market...the fittest and most product innovative will be the survivors. We'll just keep painting...LOL.....I've got two lifetimes work in the grey army.

Keith

 

[Luca Marchetti]

My take on this,

I find the comment about clean up of the casting interesting, they are obviously spooked by the quality of resin castings coming out of Russia. But my question is - if they are able to produce white metal castings with little or no clean up then why haven't they done this before? or is the substantial increase in price for the Carabineer because of this?. Looks like everyone is jumping on the Ltd Edition band wagon! It may be a cynical thought but maybe an initial release of 25 at 140+ euros + those sold on Pre-release is a way of covering some of the initial costs in case the recasters get hold of it-could be a sensible ploy?

We didn’t speak about Clean Up as something new about Pegaso quality… who wrote forgot to write:
“These models are high quality casts, that will need only minimal cleaning and assembling, AS USUAL”

We never reduced the quality of our production.
May be we didn’t always reached the goal but during the last 25 years we always put our best efforts to offer High Quality Products.

The Carabineer has an Higher cost due of it is a Limited Edition.
It is normal that a LE has higher costs.

Until Illegal Copiers don’t stop their criminal work, you’ll see more and more LE products and, let me tell you I’m really sad for this… when I started Pegaso Models it was my intention to offer our creations to ALL Modelers.
We have produced some LE product in the past but no more than 6-7 in 25years and for very special events.

But, at least: the 70% of our market is on the hands of Illegal Copiers (I have evidences of such percentage) and for sure we will not surrender, we will try everything (I mean EVERYTHING) to fight against them.
And THIS IS THE POINT.

The question is very simple: we spend time to think, we spend time to create, we cast, we pay… and Illegal Recasters are ROBBERS OF OUR WORK and pay NOTHING.

Each night Illegal Copiers enter in our store and steal the 70% of our work.

NO MORE NO LESS… nothing to debate when true is true.

I don’t wish to start a debate about such an argument.
We spoke a lot about it, we debated a lot about it.

 

[Luca Marchetti]

Been working away for a week ,come home to find out that Pegaso has limited two of there best new projects this year to something like twenty or so lucky modellers .
I would have bought at least two of these new additions had I had the chance .

The reason for such a limited amount of figures for sell for Christmas is very simple: to PRE-ASSEMBLE figures needs an HUGE amount of time.
If normally you need 2 minutes to package a single product, to do the same pre-assembling needs no less than 15-20 minutes (Choose parts, clean some parts, glue the chosen parts, put the result in the box).

Of course we would have been more than happy to have many more products for sell... but, as you know... time is time and we are not an industry (my wife put figures in the boxes ), we are 3 people at store and me as Manager and Art Director (and sculptor, and painter, and caster, and shippers and on and on for each one of us).
We are working 12-14 hours each day and we made our best... not easy really not easy.

We will try to do better in future )

 

[Ronaldo]

The reason for such a limited amount of figures for sell for Christmas is very simple: to PRE-ASSEMBLE figures needs an HUGE amount of time.
If normally you need 2 minutes to package a single product, to do the same pre-assembling needs no less than 15-20 minutes (Choose parts, clean some parts, glue the chosen parts, put the result in the box).

Of course we would have been more than happy to have many more products for sell... but, as you know... time is time and we are not an industry (my wife put figures in the boxes ), we are 3 people at store and me as Manager and Art Director (and sculptor, and painter, and caster, and shippers and on and on for each one of us).
We are working 12-14 hours each day and we made our best... not easy really not easy.

We will try to do better in future )

It wasn't a complaint Luca, just a missed opportunity for me , I did manage to get the ARGYRAPIDES
Look forward to more new stuff in resin .

 

[Tecumsea]

Hi Luca,

My comment was not a criticism but based on some inescapable observations on the current market.
The Russians have made a determined effort to market their undoubted sculpting and painting talents much more aggressively than previously. Probably driven by a challenging economy but also by skillfully using the new technologies which are changing the face of our hobby.
3d imaging and printing are turning the hobby on its head as is the superior quality of resin casting. Don't get me wrong l am a huge Pegaso fan and have over 100 of your painted figures in my cabinets and yet more in the grey army, maybe purchases have slowed of late due to the plethora of new releases into what appears to be an oversupplied market. I doubt that there is room for all in the long term.
It seems to me that only those companies who are ready to embrace the new way of things and adopt a flexible approach will survive long term, whether that means shorter production runs, resin casting, limited editions (although from what l have learned over the years 300 copies can be called limited but to sell 300 of a kit requires it to be something pretty special, out of the ordinary and imaginative,) or gambling on products out of the mainstream for example RP Models. Maybe resin casting is also enabling some of the smaller companies to gamble by producing subjects in areas that have been neglected or untapped. A constant stream of Napoleonics, Romans, knights etc seem tired compared to the diversity currently on offer.
Referring back to my previous post I find it strange that you have produced two kits, released a minimal number, created a demand and left it to a recaster to pick up on this and produce copies, while you will not be supplying more until late in 2019 .
It is good to see Pegaso responding to the new challenges and l for one will continue to support you, as l am sure will many of your existing customers, may l wish you every success in your endeavours in this difficult market in 2019 .

Keith.

 

[Luca Marchetti]

Hi Luca,

My comment was not a criticism but based on some inescapable observations on the current market.
The Russians have made a determined effort to market their undoubted sculpting and painting talents much more aggressively than previously. Probably driven by a challenging economy but also by skillfully using the new technologies which are changing the face of our hobby.
3d imaging and printing are turning the hobby on its head as is the superior quality of resin casting. Don't get me wrong l am a huge Pegaso fan and have over 100 of your painted figures in my cabinets and yet more in the grey army, maybe purchases have slowed of late due to the plethora of new releases into what appears to be an oversupplied market. I doubt that there is room for all in the long term.
It seems to me that only those companies who are ready to embrace the new way of things and adopt a flexible approach will survive long term, whether that means shorter production runs, resin casting, limited editions (although from what l have learned over the years 300 copies can be called limited but to sell 300 of a kit requires it to be something pretty special, out of the ordinary and imaginative,) or gambling on products out of the mainstream for example RP Models. Maybe resin casting is also enabling some of the smaller companies to gamble by producing subjects in areas that have been neglected or untapped. A constant stream of Napoleonics, Romans, knights etc seem tired compared to the diversity currently on offer.
Referring back to my previous post I find it strange that you have produced two kits, released a minimal number, created a demand and left it to a recaster to pick up on this and produce copies, while you will not be supplying more until late in 2019 .
It is good to see Pegaso responding to the new challenges and l for one will continue to support you, as l am sure will many of your existing customers, may l wish you every success in your endeavours in this difficult market in 2019 .

Keith.

Hi Keith

I have nothing against HONEST Russian producers, I have an huge respect for Russia, russian Artists as for as Russian History.
I have A LOT against ILLEGAL COPIERS.
Russian Artists are really higly skilled and they are a lot... I have nothing against them, they have my respect and, by mi side, being in business, it is normal to compete to offer the best, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It's business
About new technologies... speaking about historical production, at the moment, the most of sculptors work in analogic way.
3D is mostly used in Fantasy production and it is 2 years we are working with 3D artists.

About subjects, I may tell you that my experience (statistics, not opinions) shows me that Romans, Crusades, Napoleonic, Samurais etc etc... sell many more than other kind of subject, and it is a fact that such kind of subjects are massively copied and sold by illegal caster. We are the most copied company in the world (speaking about historical producers).

"created a demand and left it to a recaster to pick up on this and produce copies"
if we are preassembling our products I suppose it there is a meaning... we are trying to obstacle illegal recasters.
Of course it is not the final solution but, at least, they will have to work and to spend time and money to recast our products.
The REAL FINAL SOLUTION? To stop to produce for modelers and to start to produce only for Collectors in a strongly limited numer edition... but, let me tell you if we will get to such a decision, I'll be very very very sad to me. It will be a defeat.

cheers

Luca

 

[Tecumsea]

I hope it doesn't come to that Luca and believe me I empathise with your predicament. The fact remains that illegal copying is a multi industry problem exacerbated by the internet and the inability of the likes of Ebay and Alibaba to control their massive sales platforms.

Sadly it will not go away and so it may be that some form of collector pre-ordering or crowd funding future projects will be a solution in order to guarantee a continuation of business. It is a sad fact that there will always be a market for recasts for reasons that have been discussed on this and other forums extensively over recent years.

I sincerely hope that you find solutions that enable Pegaso to remain a market leader for many years ahead.

By the way, I have cabinets full of Romans, Knights, Samurai and my main love Napoleonics.....LOL.......My point was that smaller companies have the flexibility to experiment with shorter runs of products that explore new historical areas, I suspect that quite a lot of business is going in this direction. I certainly have friends who in the past 12 months have bought almost exclusively from Russian Companies producing in Resin, even to the extent of selling their metal grey army........the market is changing rapidly.

I had not realised that you were pre assembling some products,( I think sometimes things get lost in translation,) it does of course explain some of the extra cost and I hope it works for you in thwarting the efforts of the recasters.

Thanks for responding and I look forward to picking up the latest Napoleonics when they become available,

Best regards.....Keith

 

[Luca Marchetti]

My point was that smaller companies have the flexibility to experiment with shorter runs of products that explore new historical areas, I suspect that quite a lot of business is going in this direction.

Mmmm... I may affirm we explored an huge historical area in 25 years.
I give you a sample: in Napoleonic era we explored not only French and British troops, but also Bavarians, Prussians, Russians etcetera etcetera BUT, the answer of the market was very clear: "Stop it!"
In fact, if we sold 10 x French or British subjects we sold 1 x Bavarian or Russian subjects.
If you have time to give a look at our online catalogue you'll see how many experiments we offered exploring new eras and subjects but, again, the market always answered us: "Stop It!"

Think on Victorian era, full of really beautiful uniforms (and not only British uniforms) but, sadly, the world of modelers is not in love with such historical period.
Think that, speaking about "Medievals" the most of modelers stop their love at XIV century... it seems they are not in love with XV-XVI century armors (Renaissance time).
Ancient Era? Why not Babilonians, Assyrs, Egyptians... etcetera etcetera? Because you sell 20 Romans or Greeks in front of 1 of the other areas. Only Celts and Gauls have good possibilities on the market but, again, less than Romans or Greeks.

A curious aspect of medieval times: the most of Medieval Knights can be painted as Crusaders... BUT, the most of modelers don't think in such a way so, when we produce a medieval knight if we paint him as a crusader we sell it many more time than a knight painted having his own family heraldry.

Ok, now I stop to bore you with my thoughts but I think it was important to answer your thoughts

Luca

 

[Tecumsea]

I think it is a question of scale Luca, some of the smaller producers can be happy with maybe 50 copies sold whereas for you this would not be viable when you pay a sculptor, pay for Box Art, nice Boxes etc etc. and then hope for a profit! It is the difference unfortunately between the full time professional business and the part time or artisan of which there seem to be many at the moment.

It is fascinating to hear your thoughts and I still have a copy of the insight you provided into production numbers some years ago. Unfortunately there are no easy answers or we would all be sailing our Yachts in the Mediterranean.....LOL

Keith

 

[Luca Marchetti]

I think it is a question of scale Luca, some of the smaller producers can be happy with maybe 50 copies sold whereas for you this would not be viable when you pay a sculptor, pay for Box Art, nice Boxes etc etc. and then hope for a profit! It is the difference unfortunately between the full time professional business and the part time or artisan of which there seem to be many at the moment.

It is fascinating to hear your thoughts and I still have a copy of the insight you provided into production numbers some years ago. Unfortunately there are no easy answers or we would all be sailing our Yachts in the Mediterranean.....LOL

Keith

a Yacht in the Mediterranean?
OH MY GOD!!!
When I'll have it ... you'll be my guest for sure!!!!!

 

[Ronaldo]

I think we tend to forget or overlook the fact that this is predominantly a cottage industry where enthusiastic modellers progress into small companies , Napolionics , Romans , Crusaders and first and second world war Germans are the
bread and butter of this hobby .
Yes the Crimea , Second Empire , ACW and American war of independence are also great subjects but play second fiddle
to the above mentioned .
I hope your initiative Luca re tackling the re-caster thieves works.
I think diligence at shows is also required as I have seen them set up stall at some events , and some stuff sneak in at Ingolstadt also; albeit discreetly mixed with Bona Fida stuff . sad to say it all seems to be coming from one source and its not China

 

[Luca Marchetti]

I think we tend to forget or overlook the fact that this is predominantly a cottage industry where enthusiastic modellers progress into small companies , Napolionics , Romans , Crusaders and first and second world war Germans are the
bread and butter of this hobby .
Yes the Crimea , Second Empire , ACW and American war of independence are also great subjects but play second fiddle
to the above mentioned .
I hope your initiative Luca re tackling the re-caster thieves works.
I think diligence at shows is also required as I have seen them set up stall at some events , and some stuff sneak in at Ingolstadt also; albeit discreetly mixed with Bona Fida stuff . sad to say it all seems to be coming from one source and its not China

Yes Ronaldo, I agree... it would be needing a strong support by Show Organizators.
We tried to ask for it but... it is not so easy.

 

[Luca Marchetti]

I can tell you something more... I have witnesses that, during an international show in Belgium, some members of a very famous Historical Modelers Club were not buying the news presented at the show and were speaking about the fact they were waiting for illegal casters copies to save money.
So, you see, it is also needing the support of modelers.

 

[Wayneb]

I would believe that Luca....I bet there are more than a few wearing two faces on PF. I confessed the error of my ways quite a few years ago that I had purchased recasts (2) before I realized by finding out on PF that it was the wrong thing to do. I won't do it again for fear of bad JuJu and I would end up doing a **** paint job on it...…... Live and learn.