No more Euro

[Johan]

Ian Burton will probably recall "Northern Militaire" in Glasgow in 1992 ... why don't you guys try to organise something like that again ? It was fun too, I recall eating porridge for breakfast, leaving a pub full of Rangers fans in a hurry because they didn't like the English, Steve Warrilow who is a great guy and gave me a Liverpool shirt, and even Mike Blank was amongst the "punters" !

 

[Bootneck]

Got yo think you have to build from the foundation up , could take a few years , maybe even best to miss 2017 and buy time to put something special on again .

Meanwhile Sword and Lance can fill the gap ,it is growing and is a good club show ; it could take on the roll if the organisers wished to promote beyond the club level and all passionate guys about the hobby.

This was one of my thoughts also,don't rush to put something together for 2017, get it right and come back with a bang in 2018. Also like the comments about Sword & Lance.
Peter.

 

[Helm]

Got yo think you have to build from the foundation up , could take a few years , maybe even best to miss 2017 and buy time to put something special on again .

Meanwhile Sword and Lance can fill the gap ,it is growing and is a good club show ; it could take on the roll if the organisers wished to promote beyond the club level and all passionate guys about the hobby.

Agreed Ron but the location may be against it, what's the links to the continent like guys ? It is a cracking show I agree
Steve

 

[Ray Stout]

Johan, That show was NOT Northern Militaire!! but was The Scottish Soldiers Show. I was there too with Rck Scollins, Keith Durham, and Robert Bryce. Northern Militaire Has always been held in the Greater Manchester Area, and was financed by Frank Hinchcliffe.

 

[DEL]

There's clearly a real concern that the UK has lost it's major International 'Figure' modelling show and hats off to Stu, Ian and others who are working hard to ensure a resurrection. On a purely personal level, and as one who has enjoyed every minute I've spent in Folkestone, now is the time to relocate to a location that meets modern expectations, has added value and is relatively accessible for both UK and international visitors. Leeds being a favourite contender from my perspective.
Ian has made it clear that 2017 is not an option, that being so I'd much prefer that a year was given over to planning and organisation of a new venture to be launched in 2018.
The Armouries would make for a world class venue and certain assumptions could be drawn regarding likely success, particularly if near on a year could be spent promoting it.
Ray in his post above has pointed out that NM was financed by Hinchcliffe and this in turn highlights the need for any venture to be underwritten whether by insurance or by pledges. Insuring a short fall in costs would probably be impractical at least for the first few years so pledges might be the way to go.
The problem will always be underwriting. One option could be if a show had 60+ traders. A pledge of an average £200 / euros per trader creates a virtual battle chest of £12,000 / euros to cover any shortfall. If no shortfall exists then a donation from each of £50 / euros gives a year by year £3,000 / euros. By year 4 with each year being break even there would be no need to ask for a pledge as the organisers would have an £12,000 actual battle chest.
Obviously significant planning, risk assessment and due diligence would have to take place and this takes time and energy.
A donation model could also be established where modellers and painters could donate £10 / euros per annum to add to the chests bottom line.
It needs to be accepted that this would be in addition the hire costs and ticket costs.
Can I conclude that I've no idea what it would cost for a major show but it strikes me that there needs to be a bit of a safety net that at least protects the organisers from any potential comeback on them collectively or individually.

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys

Lots of great comments on a potential new show ..there is enough enthauastic folk here that are willing to help in any way ( I could guard the biscuits..lol)

Wherever it is I agree let's get it right for all concerned as with all shows things are learnt and adapted as they progress ( Bugle Call is one that comes to mind)

No rush for 2017 as said and I agree otherwise too much pressure on the management !

Again I offer my help

I would like to see a PF table display and would have no probs organising that ( we have one at BC this year)

Nap

 

[Nap]

If the plan is to keep it as a figure-biased show, I'd be inclined to emphasise the figures side of it.

So "European Figure Expo" or something along those lines. Otherwise there's a risk it'll end up being be swamped by tanks, planes and stuff like Millenium Falcons and X-Wing fighters out of "Star Wars".

- Steve

I agree with Steve here keep it figure related , there is Telford for planes etc

Nap

 

[mick3272]

There's clearly a real concern that the UK has lost it's major International 'Figure' modelling show and hats off to Stu, Ian and others who are working hard to ensure a resurrection. On a purely personal level, and as one who has enjoyed every minute I've spent in Folkestone, now is the time to relocate to a location that meets modern expectations, has added value and is relatively accessible for both UK and international visitors. Leeds being a favourite contender from my perspective.
Ian has made it clear that 2017 is not an option, that being so I'd much prefer that a year was given over to planning and organisation of a new venture to be launched in 2018.
The Armouries would make for a world class venue and certain assumptions could be drawn regarding likely success, particularly if near on a year could be spent promoting it.
Ray in his post above has pointed out that NM was financed by Hinchcliffe and this in turn highlights the need for any venture to be underwritten whether by insurance or by pledges. Insuring a short fall in costs would probably be impractical at least for the first few years so pledges might be the way to go.
The problem will always be underwriting. One option could be if a show had 60+ traders. A pledge of an average £200 / euros per trader creates a virtual battle chest of £12,000 / euros to cover any shortfall. If no shortfall exists then a donation from each of £50 / euros gives a year by year £3,000 / euros. By year 4 with each year being break even there would be no need to ask for a pledge as the organisers would have an £12,000 actual battle chest.
Obviously significant planning, risk assessment and due diligence would have to take place and this takes time and energy.
A donation model could also be established where modellers and painters could donate £10 / euros per annum to add to the chests bottom line.
It needs to be accepted that this would be in addition the hire costs and ticket costs.
Can I conclude that I've no idea what it would cost for a major show but it strikes me that there needs to be a bit of a safety net that at least protects the organisers from any potential comeback on them collectively or individually.

I think Del has his Mr Sensible head on today.

With Regard to location I still think Folkestone. I will only have to save for my bus fare into town. But seriously I would go anywhere in the UK.

As for 2017 or 2018 It would be a shame not to have it next year and it would keep the momentum going. But if it is going ahead lets do it 100% right and if it takes us into 2018 so be it.

And Last I agree with Steve keep it figure related.

Mick

 

[Blind Pew]

Well, PF has not disappointed. Loads of great, constructive suggestions, and some obvious work by some people as well. Thank you on behalf of everybody, especially me.
Fellas, I only live about an hour and a bit from Folkestone. So it's within easy reach for me.. But no. Forget Folkestone. We, the modelling fraternity owe them nothing. They made it clear they didn't want us there (oddly). The dosh we must have collectively spent into the place must have been substantial.

As others have said, if any subsequent show is there, comparisons will be inevitable. And tedious. We have to move on.

The star of the show has to be the show itself. Not the location or venue.

The Leas Cliff Hall is a bizzare, weird antiquated venue.

Other locations will be debated, all with their pluses and minuses.

I reckon the 2018 UK Open has a nice ring to it!

 

[brian]

If the plan is to keep it as a figure-biased show, I'd be inclined to emphasise the figures side of it.

So "European Figure Expo" or something along those lines. Otherwise there's a risk it'll end up being be swamped by tanks, planes and stuff like Millenium Falcons and X-Wing fighters out of "Star Wars".

- Steve

 

[brian]

I feel a lot better after reading everybody's comments on this thread.What comes through loud and clear is the enthusiasm for the future,whatever it might be.I for one,will whole heartily agree to what happens,as long as some form of figure show is held in the U.K.

 

[MCPWilk]

I have always enjoyed Euromilitaire, but talking to a number of traders there are a number of problems regarding cost of tables, cost of hotel accommodation and ease of access. Continental shows are often held in conference centres with available accommodation good parking and good transport links.
I would thoroughly recommend a rethink.
Firstly the venue must be easy to access by train or car with freely available parking.
Hotel/motel accommodation must be of a reasonable standard and relatively cheap.
The cost of a stand must not be prohibitive.
We need to encourage new blood. Many of us started off with Airfix/Revell kits and progressed onto Historex, Poste Militaire &c. The premier show at the time was the Model Engineer Exhibition, which is now a shadow of its former self. Look at any Games Workshop shop on a Saturday and you will see a lot of keen youngsters. Perhaps it is worth 'piggybacking' onto or sharing a show with the fantasy gamers?

First I would suggest finding a suitable site, preferably around the M25/M4/M40/M1, near a major (Eurostar) train station with good accommodation for traders and overseas visitors. A new name has been suggested - Europa Militaire? Model Figure World? The World of Model Figures? etc.

 

[Ray Stout]

Del, An answer to funding would be a Trader's Co-operative. The price of the venue will be known early on, and a budget for Advertising, and Stewarding can be estimated. These costs are shared between the Traders, so that the Footfall money can be used to off set the following year's show. This has 2 consequences. 1. The more Traders, the cheaper the stand price. 2. The first year will be the most expensive, BUT, as the show grows in reputation, more foot fall, and more Traders wishing to attend, helps to off-set any Price rises. A show like this, means that it's a not for profit show, keeping costs down for everyone. Any Traders wishing to trade at the show would pay the ORIGONAL stand fee, that the founder Traders paid in the first year, adding extra revenue, keeping door prices down, and, it's a good reason to get in on the first year. The show belongs to the Traders, not a 3rd. party just interested in making money, and EVERYONE can play a part in keeping the show going. One other point, is that Northern Militaire had a Sponser, but they also had a Local Wargaming Club who acted as Stewards, which Hinchcliffe paid for. The new show will need something similar. Comments please Ray

 

[ellie]

I have taken on board the comments and I will pass them on to Stu and others. my head and Heart say Leeds Armouries as a lot of the work was done and only needs dates to be agreed for 2018. I think it would be the best place for the show with everything in one place their is a Hotel on site and about 12 in 10mins walk of the venue. their are two Exhibition halls the very large one is very expensive and maybe could be looked at in following years as the show expands. the smaller one in in the heart of the armouries and is great. I have to say that if that venue does not pull in the punters ( Sorry Johan LOL) along with casual punters who visit the museum over the weekend.

We do need to get the ground work right and yes a year to do this would be fantastic and such a lot could be done to do this. Del I like what you have come up with and this is something I will put in a business plan and show to others and see what they think.

The Armouries would be a natural home for the show and something that would be a Must attend event if we get it right. I just wish some traders believed in what we were going to do when we booked it then maybe the loss of Euro would not have caused the turmoil it has. now lets see what can be done I will now start to get a plan together and see what we can come up with for 2018.

Please keep the thoughts coming email me and I can then pull them together and pick out what might work.

Cheers

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[stormtrooper miniatures]

If all people want is a uk figure show the we already have that its called figure world.

Euro attracted people from everywhere and to be honest i dont think leeds and the armouries is gonna pull that many people.

The hotels will be dearer and its not an easy place to drive too from anywhere. I went to the original show and have never been back nor been to the armouries since. My friend gary was one of the original organisers and ended up in court !!!!!

I suppose the question is what do people want because the uk already has a figure show

Stuart

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Yea but it is in Oundle , not the easiest of places to get to

 

[ellie]

Well stu you may be right with Figure world but I've heard nothing form Adrian and I sent him a message over the weekend so I don't know his feelings on that one, as to the hotels the new hotels that have been built since the original leeds show are designed for the weekend party people and the price is much cheaper than Folkstone I can assure you on that point the starting price for the one next to the armouries which is a 4 star starts at £35.00 and the one 5 mins walk away is also a brand new building and is again a 4 star is 32.00 per night. all the city centre hotels have special weekend rates to attract people.

The whole of the royal armouries has been built up with shops and restaurants, and is now a very vibrant part of the city centre.as for the road links we have the M621 (M62) and the A1. we have the Rail link which has a Euro Hub. we have the Leeds/Bradford Airport a twenty minutes drive to the city centre. and we are not that far from Manchester Airport closer than London's Heathrow for folkstone. we are also about an hours drive from Hull if you want to come by sea. so that argument does not hold up things have changed in the 15 years since the last show.

So that's my pitch. people have asked for the armouries , we then have the people wanting the Leas, old Vs new & figure show Vs open to anything. I have to scratch my head at this point as we have no solid opinion on this. having looked at the messages i have received it's around 50 / 50 as to the venue. some of the trade just want to see something happen. but maybe might be better to see what others come up with and see what is best all round.

cheers

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Nap]

Stu,

You raise a good point

I suppose as this forum and we all are figure guys it's what we want but despite my previous post the show has to succeed and involving all modelling types including war gamers for the youngsters will help bring the show to the fore .

Just a thought has anyone thought about approaching the planey and tanky forums about this potential new show !

People will go to a show if they want to

Nap

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Good god !! keep the warmers away I was once one of them

 

[DEL]

If all people want is a uk figure show the we already have that its called figure world.

Euro attracted people from everywhere and to be honest i dont think leeds and the armouries is gonna pull that many people.

The hotels will be dearer and its not an easy place to drive too from anywhere. I went to the original show and have never been back nor been to the armouries since. My friend gary was one of the original organisers and ended up in court !!!!!

I suppose the question is what do people want because the uk already has a figure show

Stuart

If I can take your points one by one Stu.
1. If all people want is a uk figure show the we already have that its called figure world.
I think it's maybe a matter of detail. Figure world unless I'm wrong is a show enhanced by a relatively small range of traders, and excellent I believe.
What I think people want is an International competition and show with home and international traders.
2. I dont think leeds and the armouries is gonna pull that many people.
If Leeds can't, with the Armouries, easy access to York, Durham and Newcastle, for those who like to make a bit of a holiday out of it. I can't think where can.
3. Hotels will be dearer
That's probably true but for a lot of UK attendees this would in part be offset by reduced transport costs.
4. Not an easy place to drive to.
Maybe it's because England has a much better transport infrastructure than Scotland but from my perspective Leeds is extremely well served for access by road, rail and indeed air.
5. One of the original organisers and ended up in court !!!!!
Whatever was designed should, having done due diligence indemnify all organisers as far as possible within law.
6. The uk already has a figure show
If Leeds is hard to get to how can Oundle be considered as a venue for a show that has a UK draw?

Derek