No more Euro

[valiant]

Just my two penn'th for what its worth.

The IPMS show at Telford is an international event and, as such, attracts traders and clubs from all over the world, not just Europe. This reputation has built up over many years, with the show slowly growing year on year. I can remember the show being held at Donington some years back and it was a huge financial risk to move it to present location in Telford. In the early days, the show was only in two halls and the spare space was filled with static displays/vehicle, etc and was pretty much solely plastic kits. This year it filled three halls and there is no longer room for static displays. There has even been rumour of this show outgrowing its present location and maybe having to relocate eleswhere.

Whatever replaces Euro and wherever it is held, I feel it may take several years to reach a peak and attract the number of international traders that Euro has done in its heyday. However, I'm sure with the passion and support that people obviously are displaying for a new show it will be a success - from small acorns........

 

[Nige]

The purpose of having a show in Folkestone is to accommodate the Europeans - only the Europeans have already stuck two fingers up at Folkestone and don't attend I doubt whether it was because MTM were running the show - more likely its because Folkestone is very poor value for money and is a bit of a s***hole, unworthy of a National show never mind European.
If it must be held in the South then would it not be prudent to consider this or any proposed show will be on the back foot before it starts.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I think some of you forget that a lot of us from overseas isnt mainly there to shop. Most of that can be done on the internet these days. I and many with me come to see the displayed models of top quality painters and artists, to meet old friends and make new ones.

If you get the top displays to the show, the enthusiasts will follow and after them traders and punters. Thats my belief. And when you have a lot of traders the exhibitors ant enthusiats will do their shopping as well.

Having said that, I do think many of you are right that it has to bee close or convenient to the continent. Although I visited the Royal Armories just before Euro and liked it a lot.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Nige]

Just my two penn'th for what its worth.



The IPMS show at Telford is an international event and, as such, attracts traders and clubs from all over the world, not just Europe. This reputation has built up over many years, with the show slowly growing year on year. I can remember the show being held at Donington some years back and it was a huge financial risk to move it to present location in Telford. In the early days, the show was only in two halls and the spare space was filled with static displays/vehicle, etc and was pretty much solely plastic kits. This year it filled three halls and there is no longer room for static displays. There has even been rumour of this show outgrowing its present location and maybe having to relocate eleswhere.



Whatever replaces Euro and wherever it is held, I feel it may take several years to reach a peak and attract the number of international traders that Euro has done in its heyday. However, I'm sure with the passion and support that people obviously are displaying for a new show it will be a success - from small acorns........

Superb, well organised show with support from many clubs from all over Europe putting on displays. Lots of excellent accommodation from the many small towns and villages surrounding Telford. Great weekend.

 

[Nicholas Ball]

I spoke to a few Guys from Europe, and distance is not too much of a problem, but they would prefer a south East venue as they drive.

This said,it would be worth trying to find a conference hotel somewhere in the Ashford / Canterbury area. They may consider if all is in house, food, drink and rooms then they can give a good rate like Einhoven. Insurance would also be covered under their hotel policy so no extra charge.
Problem is, hotel room rates!!

I could try phoning a few if you would like me to.

 

[Ray Stout]

For your information Carl, Pegasso did come to the Leeds Show, and , for the ONLY time in the UK then, The St. Petersburg Collection attended too. So let's dispell the Myth that Overseas Traders wont come North to Leeds. THEY'VE BEEN HERE and would come back again!!! Ray

 

[carl reid]

For your information Carl, Pegasso did come to the Leeds Show, and , for the ONLY time in the UK then, The St. Petersburg Collection attended too. So let's dispell the Myth that Overseas Traders wont come North to Leeds. THEY'VE BEEN HERE and would come back again!!! Ray

For my information?

Why didn't it continue?

 

[Ray Stout]

Carl, It didn't continue because Military Modelling sent faxes to all the Overseas Traders informing them that if they attended the Leeds show, they would be barred from Euro Militaire.(I saw the fax sent toEl Vego Dragon). Peggaso took the view that No-one tells them where they can trade, and came to the show, but most of the UK andOverseas Traders were scared off. Secondly, there were rumours circulated that Ian and I weren't capable of running the show, that it wouldn't happen, that we had left unpaid bills etc. When we tried to advertise the show in Mil. Mod. magazine, they quoted £1,000 for an inside back page add, we got someone else to ask for the same space, they were quoted£250,(we taped both conversations on an Answerphone). It sickened me so much, I came out of the hobby after the show. This was an ugly side of the hobby, I'd not seen before then, and hope that it's gone now with the people in charge of M.A.P, Publications, who ran Euro at that time. I hope that goes some way to answering your questions. Ray

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

I was told recently that Glasgow is very nice indeed ; it must have changed alot.
In 1992 when I got of the train, first person that I met wanted my wallet ; I only realised that when my friends from Yorkshire told me. But at the time I had not understood a word of what that guy said, and had given him a very friendly reply and had walked on ... he must have been so baffled that he forgot to kill and rob me.

No one has ever tried to rob me in Glasgow Johan , but they have tried in Rome ,Paris and Valencia , and as for rangers fans not liking the English as someone remarked ;its the exact opposite.
Any what WTF has football got to do with modelling anyway .
I can see the practicalities of traders requiring road transport and had given some thought to taking a table at Euro but the distance from Glasgow to folkestone by road is just to great to be practicable and make a profit .
From what I can see on here is , the UK has lost its number one spot in the modelling world and might never recover .
There are other good shows in Europe well worth a visit and to be honest easier to get to for us Scots , I don't think any of our lot would have attended a 2017 euro anyway.

For me the show had become a great whoar sucking money out of every pocket

 

[ellie]

Well guys you see this is the problem everyone is wanting something different, their is no agreement on where it should be we can't please everyone this is the problem at the end of the day we are looking at thousands of pounds to put this event on. the bulk of this will be shouldered by the trade as it's them that tables will have to be sold to. just to cover the cost of the hall were ever it ends up.

it's a gamble which could back fire if we don't get it right and get the support from both the trade and the modelling community. all this could have been avoided if MTM had taken note of what was needed. I will still carry on with plans but we need to hear costings from other venues. Nicholas if you can find any info about Ashford and the like that would be great. again it's about costing this right and picking the right place.

Ray is right in his post the Leeds show was dogged with bad press which was undeserved and the 4 people involved in it were lambasted by people at MM for trying to offer something differeant. that's history now we should look forward.

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Nige]

When we held the World Expo Glasgow in 2000 there wasn't a lot of support from European traders to be honest if I remember correctly. There were some but not as many as you would expect for such an event. The punters on the other hand turned out in numbers with many of them making it the family holiday. There were cover 1900 entries - even though it was competing with Euro which was held a couple of months later. The difference here is that it was a one off show.
On the other hand Scale Scotland in Edinburgh manages to attract a few European traders so I suppose its about getting modellers through the doors in the first place. Do that and maybe the traders will come.

 

[mick3272]

Ian,
I have lost count of the number of locations, and ideas mentioned on this thread. You have picked up the gauntlet and you alone will have to make the final decision as to location.
I don't feel that you have to worry about footfall/punters as long as the location is accessible Road ,Rail,& Air. ( I have never attended figure world as its in the arse end of anywhere and a bitch to get to by public transport.) There also needs to be a variety of hotel / B&B in various pricings.

As for the traders from outside the UK, They need to be able to drive to the event. I feel these are the people you need to canvas as to how far past Dover/ Cheriton are they prepared to travel to attend a show.

Dont rush it mate, get it right and I'm sure it will be a winner.

Mick

 

[carl reid]

Firstly I'm not here to piss on anyones parade!

But whatever happened to the Leeds show 20 years ago is neither here nor there. What I would say, regardless of skullduggery, if the foot fall was sufficient the traders would have traded, and turned up. Its as simple as that. Traders are an uncomplicated bunch. If the customers turn up, so will the traders.

I think a fundamental question that needs to be asked and in turn answered.
What kind of show do we want? International? Or national?
If its national Leeds is fine!
If its an international show, then the closer you can to ferry crossing or the tinnel, the better, and more inviting it will be.
If you want to present an international/ european inclusive show, then why would you have the venue hundreds of miles away from the closest point to people you're trying to attract.

As for the Glasgow Expo in 2000. It was a total loss for traders. I traded there. If it wasn't for Chuck, I'd made a loss, like every other trader in the room.
The competition room was packed, because the collectors was there buying comp entries.

By Ian posting the reply from the Leas. Its clear to see how much folks have been stiffed, wamt of a better term.
£6500 for the venue, plus £5 a table. It seems to me 3 to 4 traders was bankrolling the entire event ffs.
Simple back of a fag packet equation. 100 tables (and its a lot more than a 100) equates to £70 including hire charges. I know for sure some traders was paying well in excess of £400 a table!
Thats without the attendance money, and competition entry fees.

I guarantee you Ron! If you'd have been trading in the 90's, wild Celtic fans riding scabby nags wouldn't have kept you from trading at Euro mate.

Euro Militaire was a unique show. It had a world class competition room, and a brilliant, vibrant trade hall, and a social occasion second to none.

And that is what you're aiming at!
Even a fraction of the old Euro makes a great show, event, weekend!

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

I guarantee you Ron! If you'd have been trading in the 90's, wild Celtic fans riding scabby nags wouldn't have kept you from trading at Euro mate.

Celtic fans ride magnifcent thoroughbreds its Dels mob who ride scabby nags

 

[ellie]

Hi Carl thanks for the post mate you have summed it up. Euro was a cash cow as I had said months ago just looking at the costings and you see the profit that was being made. Ellie's paid £325 for the table which is a rip off when you are talking about a bit of wood and a bit of floor space.

We can slash the price and still make a profit for the shows to follow and any awards that will be needed would be covered too. the main thing is getting the traders to follow what is planned. I will contact the trade and see what they think about a re launch. it would be good for people that know some of the continental traders well to contact them and let them know that plans are a foot to rescue the show. that way they have it on the radar and they don't think it's some kind of a joke.

It can be done but we are going to have to take our time. the dates for next year are their to be seen. I think we might need a bit more time and get a first class plan together re launch and see what reaction to the first show is. we could do some kind survey at the event to see what people and trade think and build on that.

I think from what has been said both on here and FB we could take some of the ideas and see what will work. I will be seeing quite a lot of people at the White Rose Xmas Bash it could be talked about then and I could gauge what some of the uk trade and the people involved in Sword and Lance and Figure world can come up with.

As has been said it will take time and planning but lets get this thing right.

Cheers

ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Nige]

As for the Glasgow Expo in 2000. It was a total loss for traders. I traded there. If it wasn't for Chuck, I'd made a loss, like every other trader in the room.
The competition room was packed, because the collectors was there buying comp entries.

Probably was a loss for traders as they after all funded the show with the price of the tables - same as most shows that don't have a sponsor - same as Euro was funded and will be the same as the proposed new show. Punters who attend and enter comps actually give little thought as to whether Traders make a profit or not.
I mentioned the Glasgow show as case in point that European traders won't necessarily travel great distances (but punters might).

Competition rooms however aren't packed because of a few collectors - that's just utter guff. Collectors have been in evidence at all the top shows for years, though the internet has probably put paid to that these days.

 

[Ferris]

Interesting to read all this. Great to note the announcement to stop Euro triggers so much iniative, support and opinions.

If I may add one opinion: Euro is/was THE event in the hobby. In my opinion this 'brand' can only be continued if the event continues in 2017 already...and at the same venue. Only then will the community recognize it as 'Euro'. Anything else will have to start from scratch and gain its position over years, which will be much harder.

The 'change in management' can be used to market it; many talk about how good Euro was in the past. As they say, never waste a good crisis, and this situation may be just what is needed to resurrect the 'great old Euro' many talk so fondly of. This is bound to attract if only out of curiosity.

Cheers
Adrian

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

One of the many problems Adrian is that the local community don't want it as it was in its hey- day with 8lb cannons firing, French Grenadiers , German half tracks etc , they put a stop to all that.
which was a huge attraction in itself . my las visit was still good but that was three years ago but I could see the decline from the previous year .
It is a big effort distance and cost wise to get from the Scottish central belt and even more so for the Italians Germans and Americans so the show has to merit the effort which it was not doing in the later stages .

A quote from a British sculptor in in one of the hotels 4 years ago on an evenings partaking of refreshments " Only two traders here will make a profit ; the rest will be lucky to break even "
Some saw it more of a promotion cost more than anything to boost internet sales .

 

[Babelfish]

"The local community" = a bunch of miserable lemon-faced bastards (apart from Mick of course!). It was one weekend a year FFS!!

- Steve

 

[brian]

I've followed this thread religously,and weighed up the pros and cons and have come to the conclusion that Euro should still be held in Folkstone.at least for another year, to see what can be done with new backers,as it seems the last outfit were a bunch of robbing bastards.It's a 1000 mile round trip for me approx.but the buzz starts at Glasgow station for me.
"A good holiday is not so much where you go, but who you're going with"
Better the devil you know
Brian