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Rich Sculpts said:
Nothing to get excited about, it's just a sneeky trick to regulate your bowel movements :depressed:
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DEL said:
Time to bring this back to things that matter.......she's actually better looking than she appears on TV.
And before you say anything Guys (you know who you are) .. you would if only you still could :p
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T.rust you lot to bring things down to the lowest possible level........... thanks guys :happy::happy::happy:.
Gary
PS What about the stockings, flying helmet and wet celery?
 
Ferris said:
Actually, the 2nd referendum petition is a nice example of irony.
It was triggered by a Brexit supporter even before the vote to have a try at frustrating the poll result if it were not to his liking. He managed to get more than 100,000 signatures. After the vote many Remain supporters (about 3,000,000 and counting) signed up to his initiative. Now the originator complains that his petition is being 'hijacked' and really is not necessary anymore (despite the result percentages not meeting the ones he proposed in it).
So cute. :)

As to the lady voting for the opposite of what she wanted....a nice illustration of why referendums are such a bad idea. "You can't trust democracy to the public" (it's a quote, probably not accurate, forgot from who).
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I totally disagree with your conclusion that referendums are a bad idea and this is based on my observation of the system here in Switzerland. Here we have 5 or 6 referendums annually. These are then used as recommendations to the national parliament and are used to form some legislation - an example of this is that while religious freedom is a right new minarettes are banned on the ground that they arent part of traditional Swiss architecture! The one difference I notice is that here, in addition to party political leaflets, the civil service sits with all parties and writes a brochure stating the case for and against but making no recommendations and this is sent to every voter - so people have the interpretations of the facts to consider and this is what strikes me as missing in the Brexit vote: emotion and rumour superceded fact! The best example is Ebbw Vale - the town with the highest EU grants and literally a handfiul of immigrants in the UK voted to leave due to immigration and they lose out on the deal!!!!

An interesting fact which people should have considered is the financial impact (I work in IT in the finance/financial services sector) is that if Moody's and S&P downgrade the credit rating for the UK from AAA to AA+ this adds 0.000001% to the interest due on all government borrowing. Is this is a tiny amount? No - it's annually several times greater than the annual gross contribution to the EU. So, on a financial basis, this risks becoming a case of turkeys voting for christmas if the credit rating deteriorates. I've just read that several banks are considering off-shoring immediately - despite the fact that the notice to quit the EU hasn't been served.

The one ray of hope is that despite much rhetoric the political system is becoming paralysed so some real thought as to how all cvountries can sensibly proceed can take place and ensure that it doesn't lead to Europe wide anarchy which in turn will lead to war sometime in the future (the one great achievement of West and Central Europs since 1945 in my opinion). Moreover the political paralysis of Spain is another concern being overlooked at the moment and they have had many internal issues, a history of civil war and a relatively new democracy with a high number of disenchanted citizens.

Just some thoughts.
 
I knew someone would mention Switzerland and their tradition of referenda. :) and you are best placed to do so!
Agreed, but you have to agree that Switzerland is an exception. They indeed have a deep-routed tradition of referenda where they are and integral part of the political system. As you describe, they are conducted with due proces and people are used to the responsibility.

This tradition is not so established in other democracies. Look at the recent Dutch one on an EU treaty with Ukraine. The discussion was hijacked by a fanatic minority that turned it into an anti EU thing and making no effort at all to bring an objective argument. Not even mentioning the ridulous question asked, turnout was just over 30% and it was advisory only (meaning the result can and should be ignored). And it wasted over 20,000,000 Euros, part of which was spend on a subsidy to print NO arguments on toiletpaper!

The Swiss are a clever lot. They are some of the few that can be entrusted with referenda...and cuckoo clocks!
 
Ferris said:
I knew someone would mention Switzerland and their tradition of referenda. :) and you are best placed to do so!
Agreed, but you have to agree that Switzerland is an exception. They indeed have a deep-routed tradition of referenda where they are and integral part of the political system. As you describe, they are conducted with due proces and people are used to the responsibility.

This tradition is not so established in other democracies. Look at the recent Dutch one on an EU treaty with Ukraine. The discussion was hijacked by a fanatic minority that turned it into an anti EU thing and making no effort at all to bring an objective argument. Not even mentioning the ridulous question asked, turnout was just over 30% and it was advisory only (meaning the result can and should be ignored). And it wasted over 20,000,000 Euros, part of which was spend on a subsidy to print NO arguments on toiletpaper!

The Swiss are a clever lot. They are some of the few that can be entrusted with referenda...and cuckoo clocks!
Click to expand...

Fair points indeed. However sometimes more extreme items do accumulate enough signatures and get voted on such as everyone over 18 getting a guaranteed income of about 2000 swiss francs (happend last month and a giant majority said no) but all were advised what the impact would be.

The risk of hijacking is real as you correctly point out and here the SVP (Swiss People's Party) do often present anti immigration, anti EU slant on things and introduce referendums too. (An aside: they purport to represent wholesome Swiss values and often have picture of cows wearing bells on their campaign material - so funny as the cows get eaten!). Interestingly their support is outside major cities and more in the German part than the French and Italian areas - a bit like the no vote geographic picture. That might be an interesting research piece.

And finally I must take issue here. The Swiss make watches, high precision engineering and pharmaceuticals as well as all the financial business. Cuckoo clocks though are definitely from Bavaria!!!
 
@ HUW: had a friend who lived in Sittard so I've been to Limburg :)

Well, well .............. my sister lives just outside Sittard. Sometimes its a small world isn't it?

But just between you and me: Limburg sucks. It's dead. Hardly any work there either.

I grew up in Venlo a medium sized bordertown. Wasn't too bad. A lot of Brits who were stationed just across the border (RAFG Bruggen, Wildenrath & Laarbruch and countless BAOR baracks) did their shopping there. Gave the place a bit of international sparkle. And......................... everybody of my generation grew up with the BFBS and its iconic radio presentators.

But since the British withdrawal from the Rhineland Venlo is even more dead. My German relatives miss them too. Quite a few of my aunts/uncles and cousins on the other side of the border had administrative jobs with the Britsh armed forces. Their nearly 50 year long presence was also an important economic factor.

Cheers

P
 
"This tradition is not so established in other democracies. Look at the recent Dutch one on an EU treaty with Ukraine. The discussion was hijacked by a fanatic minority that turned it into an anti EU thing and making no effort at all to bring an objective argument. Not even mentioning the ridulous question asked, turnout was just over 30% and it was advisory only (meaning the result can and should be ignored). And it wasted over 20,000,000 Euros, part of which was spend on a subsidy to print NO arguments on toiletpaper! "

That referendum was horrible. Personally I can't wait until my Ukrainian brothers & sisters join the EU!
 
Seeing this thread has finally found a lighter note, please rest assured that Limburg (the Belgian one) is still in the EU as is the rest of this chaotic, disorderly and generally pleasant country of ours. Having grown up in that city The Great Warmonger loves to call a hellhole, yes Brussels,the army, fate and marriage brought me 28 years ago to this green spot of Flanders, a stone throw away from the main DZ in Schaffen AND from the battlefield of Haelen. There in august 1914 a Belgian cavalry general had the exceptional good sense, for a cavalryman, to fight dismounted and his troopers punched the cream of the German cavalry a very bloody nose, thereby slowing the advance of the German right wing. The privately kept museum in the farmhouse crucial to the battle is well worth a visit to WW1 enthusiasts.
cheers,
Piet
 
We arrived at page 10 by the way without any serious injuries so far (y)

I have to admit though that the image of The Divine Lady of Scotland conjured up by Gary almost proved fatal to me. The wet celery especially............. . How disgusting Gary. You.......!
 
Who's getting one of these? :D

des-1.png
 
rossbach said:
We arrived at page 10 by the way without any serious injuries so far (y)
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Have to admit that given the subject and the amount of passion & strong feelings that it's whipped up in both In and Out camps, I was bracing myself with trepidation for this one going off the rails very rapidly! So the fact that it has got this far with hardly any feathers being ruffled at all is a credit to all who have participated. (y) (y)

- Steve
 
Babelfish said:
Have to admit that given the subject and the amount of passion & strong feelings that it's whipped up in both In and Out camps, I was bracing myself with trepidation for this one going off the rails very rapidly! So the fact that it has got this far with hardly any feathers being ruffled at all is a credit to all who have participated. (y) (y)

- Steve
Click to expand...

Does this mean we ned to try harder to make your life as a moderator more interesting? ;)

Nicoal Sturgeon, leather, latex, lace, whips, chains, wet celery, farmyard animals... will that suffice?????:ROFLMAO:

Cheers

Huw
 

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