Sneak preview of upcoming release

[milminwh]

Greetings,

We will have a new release soon of another masterpiece sculpted by Alan Ball. The figure depicts a young Captain Robert E. Lee, as he would have appeared in the Mexican War in 1847. The attached photo is of the original master. The kit will be cast in resin and includes scenic base (as shown). Scale is 75-mm.

Sculpting based on several photos (one is shown) of Robert E. Lee, long before he gained fame as one of America's most beloved generals in the Civil War. Lee was in his late 30's when the war broke out with Mexico, and did not sport his familiar beard.

Figure should be available in a few weeks. Our web site shows additional photos.

Regards,
John
Military Miniatures Warehouse

 

[vergilius]

I'm sure that everybody on this forum wants to paint this one.
Can't wait until it's available.

 

[garyjd]

It's interesting to see a figure of Lee that shows him during his Mexican war service. I have a few comments that regard the uniform.The figure's frock coat appears to have too few buttons. Typically the frock would have not less than 8 buttons and not more than 10. This was dependent on the size of the wearer. Frock coats of the 1840's were very form fitting in not only the body but sleeves as well. This figure looks chunky, and the lack of a period build is probably due more to the style of sculpting rather than it not looking of the period. The shorter of the two straps the sword is suspended from looks like it could benefit from a bit more length. Again, this is a version of Lee we're not used to seeing. It should paint up nicely.~Gary


The image below is a great representation of a company grade officer.

 

[Alan]

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[garyjd]

Alan, I'm sure the figure once assembled and painted for the boxart will look a bit different than the black and white photo. As for the comments regarding your sculpting, they were not meant to insult you or your work. If you look at Metal Models, their product line has a certain look. While they are beautiful models, they tend to be heavier set physically then one would think of early 19th century soldiers.

Please comment when and however you wish. Though it may be courtesy, I do not feel a person should seek my blessing in the event I am not going to like what they have to say.~Gary

 

[Alan]

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[Johan]

Looks like a nice figure.
But indeed there's a problem with the buttons - they're too wide apart compared to the photograph, given the fact Lee had a coat with 10 buttons, you should at least see 7 or even 8 that do NOT go behind the sash. As the figure is still in the "master" stage, this is something that still could be easily rectified, I suppose ?

What I say is not meant as an insult or offense, by the way. Just trying to be CONSTRUCTIVE and HELPFUL. I hope that is still allowed on this forum or elsewhere in modelling circles.

And by the way - If my constructive attitude isn't appreciated, please let me know folks, then I'll put the figures and brushes aside and I'll go back to breeding Siskins and Goldfinches ; all the same for me, no big deal.

 

[Alan]

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[Johan]

Here :

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/uniforms2/us-army-mexwar3.jpg

More than 5 buttons visible in this illustration.

Regards,

J

 

[Alan]

deleted

 

[Johan]

And this : good site, completely dedicated to USA - Mexico war of 1846 - 1848.
http://www.aztecclub.com/
Hope this helps.

 

[Johan]

And here : http://www.aztecclub.com/

Good site, dedicated to the War of 1846 - 1848.

We may assume I believe that Lee wore a dark blue coat similar to all regular US army officers - dark blue, with 8 to 10 buttons (as gary said), depending on the height of the person.

I believe having read that Robert E Lee was not a small man, 5 ft 11", so ... 9 or 10 buttons ?
In any case, it's clear from that illustration that these coats had more than 5 buttons visible above the sash.

 

[Roy]

Hello guys, I wouldn't dream of commenting on the accuracy of this piece because I know so very little about Lee specifically and the period in general, and besides that I think John was excited to get this picture out as it's a new piece that he is obviously very thrilled with.

I must say that as a sculptor I find it extremely difficult to get a likeness correct, especially if I were dealing with such a well known historical character, and think Alan's efforts toward achieving that are absolutely striking. The hair really finishes it off and brings to mind (for me at least) the styles in those times. I like it very much. Nice work Alan.


All the best...Roy.

 

[Alan]

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[Alan]

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[diosytexas]

hello. leaving the button thing aside for you pro's to talk about can i say what i like about this and most of the other figures done by alan is the pose. he seems to get a natural looking stance /pose in all of his work. so often we see a stiff or rigid looking figure imo he not only has got a good likeness but also a natural looking pose. well done. dave.

 

[garyjd]

Army Regulations of 1839
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/reference/1839U.htm

The folowing books also provide information on the subject and or period.

Brassey's History of Uniforms
Mexican American War By Ron Field


Military Uniforms in America, Years of Growth, 1796-1851
The Company of Military Historians


It looks as if the Regulations specify set numbers of buttons, where the text in the Brassey book mentions the varying number of buttons on the officers frock coat in addition to regulation numbers.~Gary

 

[milminwh]

I think the inconsistencies of these posts...

...regarding the quantity of buttons on a Captain's uniform make this issue a non-issue.

Gary,
I read through the Army regulations for uniforms and could not match up the photo which depicts an actual Mex War officer. I can't seem to match up the actual amount of buttons on his coat with the US Army regulations for uniforms. Perhaps the actual uniforms worn in this war were not always matching regulation? It doesnt seem worth it to me to re-do the master. As a history buff myself, I understand the need for historical accuracy, but view this as a somewhat trivial point.

You were much more adamant in your original post (about buttons), but as you did additional research saw some inconsistency with that post, or at least that's the impression I'm getting from your verbiage.

I've checked some history of your posts, and see you (on many occassions!) have disparaging remarks about other sculptor's works, or is this just coincedental?

You must understand that as a figure manufacturer, it is extremely challenging to make any profit in this business. I do it more for both the love of history & the hobby. After I placed this announcement post, I cringed when I saw there was a reply from you (saying to myself "uh-oh").

I know you personally, and am not shy about asking you for a personal favor. If I am posting a work in progress that can be changed, and you believe you have constructive criticism, I certainly have enough respect for you & your knowlege to learn something from the post. But if I'm posting something that is a done deal, as this figure is, I would request you send me an e-mail with the criticism, as opposed to contributing to the failure of a project.

I'm now leaning towards not making any changes on these buttons. I've invested a great deal of money in this project, and hope you have not destroyed my potential sales. I relish in the joy that a unique figure like this can bring to a figure painter. Mr. Ball certainly captured the young Lee's likeness.

I certainly hope you understand where I'm coming from.

Regards,
John

 

[Jim Patrick]

Here's a thought John. Now that we will soon have a pre- Civil War Lee (btw-what self respectin' VA-ginny boy won't bye dis un?) what about a during and even after Civil War Bobby Lee? It'd sure be nice but maybe a little pricey for you. Anyway, consider my money spent.....just let us know when it'll be available.

Jim Patrick

 

[garyjd]

I've checked some history of your posts, and see you (on many occassions!) have disparaging remarks about other sculptor's works, or is this just coincedental?


John

John,

How was my research inconsistent? The Brassey book gives 8-10 as the number of buttons for an officer's single breasted frock. The reference to 8 buttons is also mentioned for full dress coats (as in the regulations) but that's not what we're talking about here.


As to my remarks about other sculptors what exactly do you mean by disparaging?

If I question the amount of buttons on a coat or cut of the garment, is that disparaging?

If I feel a sculpting style gives over to portraying humans as "chunky", thin or squat is that disparaging?

Would anyone else's comments be just as potentially hurtful as you may be suggesting? Or just mine? I do not comment on another sculptors work for the sake of just being mean spirited, or am I reading what you have written wrong? Though I have no problem where accountability or responsibility are concerned, I think it a little far fetched if not rediculous for you to suggest that I may be partially to blame if the kit does not sell well. If that's the case, then I guess I'm also to blame in the event your sculptors do not fully research the projects you commission them to do.

John, I honestly do not think this figure will succeed or fail based on my comments. People buy what they like, period. So good luck with your figure. I'm sure this portrayal of Lee will be well recieved.~Gary