Young Miniatures Roman Cavalry Officer - Theilenhofen Germany 2nd C. AD

[Ron Tamburrini]

Poor old Young's gets it in the mooth again .
Nice bust and super paint and nice to see metals done with metal .

 

[Mac1966]

From Facebook...

 

[Blue Thunder]

When I wrote last night this miniature would vibe ... I was expecting everyone to be thrilled about the replication of the spectacular Theilenhofen helmet:

How welcome this is in the bust scene! As far as I remember, it is the very first time this very late helmet is replicated in the bust genre.

But all I see is the crowd pounding the mouth of the miniature. But people, please realize: the mouth contraction and jaw protuberance occur when mammals (and not exclusively humans) fight. So, let's call it "an extreme pose".

It's a trend to stay - Carl Read pioneered, other sculptors follow along: Making a single upper chest and face tell a story is no easy task.

I am happy: Face is quite original, subject is a first comer and there's a story behind the miniature!

Since Romans are for figures, what Tigers are to armor and Emils to Aircraft, where are the Roman fans to cheer this novelty?

 

[kevininpdx]

I did comment on the mouth. The bust is still spectacular.

 

[Gaudin]

When I wrote last night this miniature would vibe ... I was expecting everyone to be thrilled about the replication of the spectacular Theilenhofen helmet:

But all I see is the crowd pounding the mouth of the miniature. But people, please realize: the mouth contraction and jaw protuberance occur when mammals (and not exclusively humans) fight. So, let's call it "an extreme pose".

I didn't realize Ken Dodd was a fighter...

I am fairly certain Young's sales will not be affected by this.

If you like it, just buy it!

 

[Babelfish]

But all I see is the crowd pounding the mouth of the miniature. .... Since Romans are for figures, what Tigers are to armor and Emils to Aircraft, where are the Roman fans to cheer this novelty?

Errrr .... but pretty much all of us have agreed that (mouth aside) it is a very nice piece that is sure to do well!! I even acknowledged that although it doesn't work for me personally, I could see what effect the sculptor was aiming for. And some guys don't appear to regard the mouth as a problem at all.

Last time I checked, this wasn't a forum on which only fawning, unconditional praise is allowed - the figure painting world's version of North Korea, if you like . Which means that if you put up a piece for inspection, expect people to point out the things that they don't like, as well as the things that they do like (and yes, that helmet is beautifully done).

- Steve

 

[Gaudin]

This wasn't a forum on which only fawning, unconditional praise is allowed - the figure painting world's version of North Korea, if you like . Which means that if you put up a piece for inspection, expect people to point out the things that they don't like, as well as the things that they do like

Steve ,

Is it possible to etch these words in gold somewhere at site's head banner? So everyone is aware?

 

[Gaudin]

I guess the question is whether the top of the mouth is easily correctible to the average modeller with adding a wee bit of magic sculpt or miliput to bring down the top lip to cover the gums. I don't think that would would be the best approach because of the moustache. If I had it, I would drill out the top teeth and gums, resculpt the teeth higher and perhaps add the tongue to create an open mouthed yell. Probably doable for most modellers.

I am taking another closer look at it.
Lorenzo clearly intended a snarl but maxilla got pulled down and upper lip remained static.

An elegant simple solution would be to:

1. Fill space under top teeth and create a gum (just hide lower teeth all together)
2. Use top teeth as lower teeth, they will need a little tweak here and there to get curvature of the jaw back.
3. Add a new row of upper teeth above, making sure they don't protrude too much.
4. Voila.

That will redress the balance in the mouth and doesn't require too much of hard work.

 

[Mark S]

I'm so glad I had the foresight to take out optical and dental figure insurance....lots of people said I was nuts and I was throwing my money away.
Well who's laughing with an awkward gummy grimace now.

 

[DEL]

If the mouth is the deal breaker then I think that Gaudins solution is worth considering.
What I'd do is to sculpt a new lower lip across the bottom teeth, a bit of re-shaping of the upper teeth to create lower teeth.
Sculpt in a heavier beard to cover the original lower lip area and re-sculpt a 'droopy' Gaul type moustache to cover the upper lip area.
D

 

[Jimbo]

I think it's a very nice sculpt from Young miniatures showing an aggressive snarling facial expression...I don't seem to remember anyone mentioning the exposed gum/dental area on JMD's production of the 57th Middlesex drummer bust when it was released a few years ago??Just a thought!
Cheers
Jim

 

[waterloo1815]

It would be a cold day in hell before I spend $70-$80 on a new release and then have to do dental surgery to make it look "right" !! The rest of the sculpt is wonderful but, those Dental?? problems turn me off!! Just my opinion!! Dave

 

[Gaudin]

It would be a cold day in hell before I spend $70-$80 on a new release and then have to do dental surgery

That is very true. And this is probably an answer to Jimbo's question too.

I reckon over few years people started to appreciate and expect quality from established top manufacturer and that's why something simple like this sticks out like sore thumb. It may not bother some people, who will happily buy it. Like Dave says, why put effort into something that should be good to go + there may be an price factor and the fact that there is so much on offer and consumer's wallet is smaller ( and finite)
Because lets face it, Lorenzo has done a brilliant job otherwise.

And because he has done otherwise a splendid job, this compromise with dental work may be a way to still enjoy the piece for those who dont sway strongly one way or another.
I doubt any one will release another version of this soon (mind you no one knows what Pegaso or Andrea are doing, there seems plenty of coincidences lately).

The drummer somehow doesn't seem unconvincing, it works, I suppose this is a combination of a not very beautiful, simple common man in a death agony and fear, that makes it work, wide open eyes don't convey anger. Its more of sardonic grimace rather than angry snarl.
From an angry Elite Roman cavalry officer I would expect a little more pedigree, not a shallow end of gene pool.

Just my personal esthetical opinion

 

[Perseas]

There is a better solution, just place beside Young's excellent bust the tooth fairy (http://www.planetfigure.com/threads/tooth-fairy.71506/#post-738641 )
Now regarding to Jimbo's post about the JMD's 57th Middlesex drummer he is absoluteley right, the face expression is quite similar but there is a difference, as Gaudin wrote,the drummer has already got a bullet in his chest and is ready to "live" a near death experience,Young's Cavarly officer as i wrote before expresses his "strength and honor" look with his own personal way...
The fact is that those who love romans will have this bust in their collection (as i will).

 

[Babelfish]

Just to add to Jim's and Perseas' comments above, another piece on which the "bare-tooth snarl" worked was the classic Andrea bust "Viking Fury". I think the sculptor of this Roman was aiming for something along those lines, but didn't quite pull it off as effectively.

- Steve

 

[kevininpdx]

If you don't like the gums I'm sure you noticed that before it was mentioned here.

 

[Martin64]

Errrr .... but pretty much all of us have agreed that (mouth aside) it is a very nice piece that is sure to do well!! I even acknowledged that although it doesn't work for me personally, I could see what effect the sculptor was aiming for. And some guys don't appear to regard the mouth as a problem at all.

Last time I checked, this wasn't a forum on which only fawning, unconditional praise is allowed - the figure painting world's version of North Korea, if you like . Which means that if you put up a piece for inspection, expect people to point out the things that they don't like, as well as the things that they do like (and yes, that helmet is beautifully done).

- Steve

Amen! Young is putting out quality and is the man that paved the way for today`s standards when we talk about busts but it can happen that a release does not meet everybodies expectations. - Mr. Young will not hesitate to consider changes and improvements on his next release I am sure.

Last time I checked in this wasn`t a forum when threads were closed because a mod was too bothered by PM`s although no violations of the rules of PF were evident.
As long as all kind of feedback is allowed I hope that this thread will survive and that now that we know that the teeth are not for everybody we can focus on other aspects of this nice release.

Cheers, Martin

 

[tonydawe]

At least no one is saying that all Young Miniature's busts have the same faces. That's refreshing.

I wont be buying this bust. Not because of the teeth, but because I've bought two new busts this month already and SWMBO is giving me "the look".

But I will eagerly await the next new release from Young Miniatures

 

[DEL]

For me it's pretty straight forward. If you like it buy it and paint it. If you like it but don't like the mouth, buy it and remodel it and paint it.
Either way it's going to be a real focal point in any display.
If neither of the above applies then don't buy it.

Cheers
Derek

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

If the mouth is the deal breaker then I think that Gaudins solution is worth considering.
What I'd do is to sculpt a new lower lip across the bottom teeth, a bit of re-shaping of the upper teeth to create lower teeth.
Sculpt in a heavier beard to cover the original lower lip area and re-sculpt a 'droopy' Gaul type moustache to cover the upper lip area.
D

I thought you were a priest not a plastic surgeon