BRAN
PlanetFigure Supporter
It's wonderful to realize a dream, I wish you the best for this project and maximum pleasure.
WIP 1/35 Scale D-Day Diorama
- Thread starter Merryweather
- Start date
Help Support planetFigure:
Hi Neil
Just a massive
....and a WOW!! ....what a amazing project really looking the business ...great pics ( should be up to 35 in each thread ....I asked Alan ( Tech ] to change it )
All the pics are showing with no issues for me
Following this really closely ,very clever research and modelling ...liking the worn look on the LC
Looking forward to seeing more
Have fun @ the bench
Nap
Just a massive
....and a WOW!! ....what a amazing project really looking the business ...great pics ( should be up to 35 in each thread ....I asked Alan ( Tech ] to change it )All the pics are showing with no issues for me
Following this really closely ,very clever research and modelling ...liking the worn look on the LC
Looking forward to seeing more
Have fun @ the bench
Nap
Merryweather
A Fixture
Bran, Nap and Nigel ,many thanks for your interest.
I know it is hugely ambitious, but you must remember I was a professional model-builder for architects before I retired so a big project is not exactly unknown territory for me- in fact at least with this the design won't change halfway through ,but still have to be finished for the same deadline!!!
And there will NOT be lights!
....hmmm
But anyway, after ten or more years of thinking about it, I have finally cut foamboard on this project. I’ve started at the bottom, naturally, with the hull and main deck, which I am going to clad in some way, as yet undecided. For the hull side there is a slight curve in the vertical plane so I need to create some identical ribs to attach my skin to (whatever it turns out to be). Having transferred the profile I pinned them all together with the ends and sanded them on the only bit of workshop kit I possess, which is a disc- and belt-sander.
Then I could go ahead and build the basic box.
It’s so bloody big I had to build it on the kitchen worktop, and it’s only the first level!
An that, my friends, is a jumbo tube of UHU, not the normal size. And then I had to get it back through the loft hatch….Oh dear what HAVE I done?
that's all for now folks
cheers
Neil
I know it is hugely ambitious, but you must remember I was a professional model-builder for architects before I retired so a big project is not exactly unknown territory for me- in fact at least with this the design won't change halfway through ,but still have to be finished for the same deadline!!!
And there will NOT be lights!
....hmmm
But anyway, after ten or more years of thinking about it, I have finally cut foamboard on this project. I’ve started at the bottom, naturally, with the hull and main deck, which I am going to clad in some way, as yet undecided. For the hull side there is a slight curve in the vertical plane so I need to create some identical ribs to attach my skin to (whatever it turns out to be). Having transferred the profile I pinned them all together with the ends and sanded them on the only bit of workshop kit I possess, which is a disc- and belt-sander.
Then I could go ahead and build the basic box.
It’s so bloody big I had to build it on the kitchen worktop, and it’s only the first level!
An that, my friends, is a jumbo tube of UHU, not the normal size. And then I had to get it back through the loft hatch….Oh dear what HAVE I done?
that's all for now folks
cheers
Neil
Briggsy
PlanetFigure Supporter
Bloody hell Neil that's a monster, going to look awesome though. The foam board is good stuff as it keeps the weight down, which if that is only the lower section is probably a good job.
More power to you mate.
Cheers Simon
More power to you mate.
Cheers Simon
Hi Neil
now that is a lot of board ......do you just glue or pin as well when putting it together?
As for getting into the loft .....get the razor saw out ....Mrs M will never noticed ...oh and resupply the UHU !
Looking forward to seeing more on this
Enjoy
Nap
now that is a lot of board ......do you just glue or pin as well when putting it together?
As for getting into the loft .....get the razor saw out ....Mrs M will never noticed ...oh and resupply the UHU !
Looking forward to seeing more on this
Enjoy
Nap
Merryweather
A Fixture
Yes I use T-pins if the finish is not important, they are very helpful.
If not I add the glue, make the joint then remove and replace the part several times in quick succession which makes the glue evaporate quicker, and in only a minute or so you can get a good bond. I like to Use Kappa foamboard if possible as the UHU doesn't attack the foam, but it still works even if it does. The solvent-free stuff takes too long to dry
Merryweather
A Fixture
Thanks very much Mike. You make a good point, and although I knew that, I was planning on the crew being US Coastguard; but RN would provide a bit more variety.
I shall explore further.
Cheers
Neil
Merryweather
A Fixture
I have clad the hull side with 1.5mm mount board as a substrate -I’m not wasting a pic on it - to which I will attach whatever cladding I decide upon. Experiments are being conducted as I type and will be reported upon completion.
I always intended to build the superstructure of the model from sheet material-foamboard, etc, so I have been studying my digital model to figure out the dimensions of the various structural elements, walls etc.
But I had a revelation.
I have two 3D printers; a small resin one, which I have used for all the detailed bits I’ve printed so far, and a large-format FDM printer (the type that extrudes a thin strand of molten plastic ) which I have used for the larger pieces like the funnel and gun tubs.
It occurred to me that I have already made the model ‘virtually’, and it would be the work of only a little while to divide the larger elements into printable pieces, so I have started with the main deck walls.
I had to add some detail of seam lines, and the porthole detail is too subtle for the big printer , so I will make them separately on the small one .
They will be inserted later and backed with 2mm clear acrylic, back-sprayed black - I am NOT doing the interior!
I made a recess in the side wall for the door
Here they are in a nice grey filament- I had to split the longest wall to fit on the printer.
The downside of using the FDM printer is that the surface finish is not at all flat-even when you print a piece flat on the build-plate.
Annoyingly this texture has to be sanded off, and that takes mark one elbow grease !
I do have an electric sander but the problem is that the melting point of the plastic filament is so low that it just wrecks the piece. So I started with P60 grit (which is practically cobble stones...!) and even that causes melting and has to be rested every now and then. I worked my way up through the grades to P320, wet, which will give me a good enough finish for primer. So you see there is no advantage adding any detail with this printer.
Well, I think that's all for now folks.
Thanks for watching
Cheers
Neil
I always intended to build the superstructure of the model from sheet material-foamboard, etc, so I have been studying my digital model to figure out the dimensions of the various structural elements, walls etc.
But I had a revelation.
I have two 3D printers; a small resin one, which I have used for all the detailed bits I’ve printed so far, and a large-format FDM printer (the type that extrudes a thin strand of molten plastic ) which I have used for the larger pieces like the funnel and gun tubs.
It occurred to me that I have already made the model ‘virtually’, and it would be the work of only a little while to divide the larger elements into printable pieces, so I have started with the main deck walls.
I had to add some detail of seam lines, and the porthole detail is too subtle for the big printer , so I will make them separately on the small one .
They will be inserted later and backed with 2mm clear acrylic, back-sprayed black - I am NOT doing the interior!
I made a recess in the side wall for the door
Here they are in a nice grey filament- I had to split the longest wall to fit on the printer.
The downside of using the FDM printer is that the surface finish is not at all flat-even when you print a piece flat on the build-plate.
Annoyingly this texture has to be sanded off, and that takes mark one elbow grease !
I do have an electric sander but the problem is that the melting point of the plastic filament is so low that it just wrecks the piece. So I started with P60 grit (which is practically cobble stones...!) and even that causes melting and has to be rested every now and then. I worked my way up through the grades to P320, wet, which will give me a good enough finish for primer. So you see there is no advantage adding any detail with this printer.
Well, I think that's all for now folks.
Thanks for watching
Cheers
Neil
Briggsy
PlanetFigure Supporter
Wonderful way to go with this build, embrace the technology, (says the man who still hasn't fully unpacked his 3 year old 3D printer).
As for the surface texture, why not coat it with Perfect Plastic Putty or similar and then sand it, it would save lots of elbow grease!
It really is nice stuff; https://deluxematerials.co.uk/products/perfect-plastic-putty
It dries fairly quickly as well.
Watching with great interest.
Cheers Simon
As for the surface texture, why not coat it with Perfect Plastic Putty or similar and then sand it, it would save lots of elbow grease!
It really is nice stuff; https://deluxematerials.co.uk/products/perfect-plastic-putty
It dries fairly quickly as well.
Watching with great interest.
Cheers Simon
Landrotten Highlander
A Fixture
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2017
- Messages
- 870
Great work,
one mention - maybe useful for the next project - but since your walls are all 'flat' it should be possible to fille the troughs between the individual layers with some sort of putty or paint (in Large Scale Planes small lines are often filled with Mr Color 1000 primer when not too deep).
Should at least limit the amount of elbow grease you put in sanding....
one mention - maybe useful for the next project - but since your walls are all 'flat' it should be possible to fille the troughs between the individual layers with some sort of putty or paint (in Large Scale Planes small lines are often filled with Mr Color 1000 primer when not too deep).
Should at least limit the amount of elbow grease you put in sanding....
Last edited:
clubcat
PlanetFigure Supporter
Maybe plastic card would have been a less time consuming option, considering the plain nature of the bulkheads.
For all the advantages of 3D printing I sometime feel that scratchbuilding is quicker than the time taken in post processing.
Melanie
For all the advantages of 3D printing I sometime feel that scratchbuilding is quicker than the time taken in post processing.
Melanie
Merryweather
A Fixture
You're not wrong ,Melanie, but I didn't have any plastic card and this method required less of my time and brain power,(as opposed to elbow grease). As I had already done all the maths and working out, I could set it off printing while I did other things, and know that it would fit.
Kind of a 'Lazy Man's Load' if you will
Merryweather
A Fixture
I do have some, Simon, I'll give it a try with the next one
Fully agree there Malc
Very interesting to see tech alongside traditional modelling
Nice updates Neil
Looking forward to seeing more
Have fun
Nap
Merryweather
A Fixture
Cheers Malc, Nigel & Nap, and thanks for the continued interest.
I have been conducting tests on how to create the hull with all its rivets (1,064 - ish)
My main concern is the huge number of rivets that absolutely MUST be placed in straight lines and evenly spaced. I don’t have the skill or the patience to stick rivets on by hand, so I’ve got to find some way of reliably controlling the placement of them. Also, I want to create the effect of slightly battered metal, so my first instinct was to use thin metal like the copper sheet I used for the bow 'hump' in my Higgins boat build. So, how to create the rivets? I do have a rivet punch, but over a thousand? I don’t think so! Pins, maybe?
I don’t have any with a small enough head(0.65mm diameter in my digital model), and I don’t even know if they exist, but let’s just prove the concept with what I have for starters. Now I need to create a straight line of holes at precise intervals, and I remembered my device for planting rye grass in my Fusiliers diorama- the dressmaker’s tracing wheel
I don’t really like the way it has dimpled the metal, it’s not appropriate for warship steel plate, but let’s carry on and see what it’s like painted.
I actually like the effect of imprinting from the reverse - the indents are a better size, but they are pierced all the way through. I ran some CA in from behind to hopefully plug the holes so we’ll see how that looks when it’s painted.
Hmm, not bad. The holes are still showing but I quite like the effect. Maybe there’s a way of getting around that. And the dimpling of the pins is not so noticeable.
Next I tried 3D printing the rivets, ready-spaced in a line. I placed them on long stalks in a line of 16 on a bar. Here’s the digital model, it’s a lot clearer than I can photograph.
It certainly beats punching over 1000 by hand, but it was tricky to glue accurately and without leaving glue marks.
I made quite a large sample panel (using 0.5mm PETG sheet because that’s all I have that’s big enough) because I wanted to experiment with ways of representing the welded seams.
I used two thicknesses of thin solder wire and thin plastic rod because the horizontal welds are chunkier than the vertical ones. It seemed like a good idea to try and reproduce the actual process, so I melted them with a soldering iron and laid them into scribed panel lines. I had real trouble gluing the solder until I degreased it - MUST remember that.....
The whole point of this is to test the techniques so I thought I would try drilling multiple holes for pins in straight lines to see exactly how tricky it is. I used the flexible drive on my mini drill(not a Dremel which doesn’t go slow enough) and amazingly it didn’t melt the plastic too much, I guess because it’s so thin. And it wasn’t as difficult as I expected either. I added a few dents too with various blunt implements.
So how does this look painted?
Kind of ok , but I am not happy with the glued rivets and the weld seams don’t really work.
And I must remember to dust it before I spray it for real....
So the next logical step is to see if I can 3D print the entire panel, rivets and all....
It would need to be done on the resin printer because of the poor surface finish of the larger FDM printer, which means it will have to be individual separate panels because of the small build volume.
I made one and printed it flat on the bed but that didn’t come out well at all. I’ve always said that you need to be a tinkerer to get on with 3D printing and this is certainly the case here. After a couple more failures I set up the panel to print upright-i.e. Portrait, and it was going to take 17 hours....
That wasn’t a problem in itself, but the bonus of this type of printer is that no matter how much volume of subject matter is in the build chamber it’s the height of the build that defines the time taken, so I decided to print multiple panels to fit together.
The unfortunate thing about these kind of printers is that they are brilliant for complicated organic forms but not so good at flat surfaces and straight lines, so I know I am taking a risk. And everyone knows about the build layers in 3D printing but I am hoping I can beat them by building absolutely vertically.
Well there are build lines visible and some unexplained weird ‘coral growth’ on one of the panels but let’s put it together with some weld seams and see how it looks under paint. I had such trouble with the solder not sticking that I thought about other methods to represent the weld seams. I have tried green stuff already and found it difficult, but what I want is something similar but more easily controlled. I have some blunt syringe needles (and their syringes) that I bought for sculpting, so I squirted some Perfect Plastic Putty into one and then carefully squidged it into the grooves between the panels like a miniature version of a silicone sealant gun
I had no idea whether it would work but actually it came out better than I could have hoped
So how does it look painted?
I like the fine detail of the rivets but the build lines are just too evident and eliminating them will be too painful. And ,of course I would have to create each panel in CAD, which will take a while.
But I am very pleased with the weld seams.
So I think the conclusion is that I'm probably going to use a single sheet of plastic with weld seams made with the syringe technique, and experiment further with ways of doing the rivets. I’m not going to use metal as I’ve decided against too much denting. The references I am using are of a ship that is 80 years old, whereas she would be only a couple of years old at most on D-Day. I’ve ordered some small pins and insect pins although I'm not optimistic I can get anything smaller than a 1.42mm diameter head. But maybe I can refine the 3D printed method?
Thanks as always for following along
cheers
Neil
I have been conducting tests on how to create the hull with all its rivets (1,064 - ish)
My main concern is the huge number of rivets that absolutely MUST be placed in straight lines and evenly spaced. I don’t have the skill or the patience to stick rivets on by hand, so I’ve got to find some way of reliably controlling the placement of them. Also, I want to create the effect of slightly battered metal, so my first instinct was to use thin metal like the copper sheet I used for the bow 'hump' in my Higgins boat build. So, how to create the rivets? I do have a rivet punch, but over a thousand? I don’t think so! Pins, maybe?
I don’t have any with a small enough head(0.65mm diameter in my digital model), and I don’t even know if they exist, but let’s just prove the concept with what I have for starters. Now I need to create a straight line of holes at precise intervals, and I remembered my device for planting rye grass in my Fusiliers diorama- the dressmaker’s tracing wheel
I don’t really like the way it has dimpled the metal, it’s not appropriate for warship steel plate, but let’s carry on and see what it’s like painted.
I actually like the effect of imprinting from the reverse - the indents are a better size, but they are pierced all the way through. I ran some CA in from behind to hopefully plug the holes so we’ll see how that looks when it’s painted.
Hmm, not bad. The holes are still showing but I quite like the effect. Maybe there’s a way of getting around that. And the dimpling of the pins is not so noticeable.
Next I tried 3D printing the rivets, ready-spaced in a line. I placed them on long stalks in a line of 16 on a bar. Here’s the digital model, it’s a lot clearer than I can photograph.
It certainly beats punching over 1000 by hand, but it was tricky to glue accurately and without leaving glue marks.
I made quite a large sample panel (using 0.5mm PETG sheet because that’s all I have that’s big enough) because I wanted to experiment with ways of representing the welded seams.
I used two thicknesses of thin solder wire and thin plastic rod because the horizontal welds are chunkier than the vertical ones. It seemed like a good idea to try and reproduce the actual process, so I melted them with a soldering iron and laid them into scribed panel lines. I had real trouble gluing the solder until I degreased it - MUST remember that.....
The whole point of this is to test the techniques so I thought I would try drilling multiple holes for pins in straight lines to see exactly how tricky it is. I used the flexible drive on my mini drill(not a Dremel which doesn’t go slow enough) and amazingly it didn’t melt the plastic too much, I guess because it’s so thin. And it wasn’t as difficult as I expected either. I added a few dents too with various blunt implements.
So how does this look painted?
Kind of ok , but I am not happy with the glued rivets and the weld seams don’t really work.
And I must remember to dust it before I spray it for real....
So the next logical step is to see if I can 3D print the entire panel, rivets and all....
It would need to be done on the resin printer because of the poor surface finish of the larger FDM printer, which means it will have to be individual separate panels because of the small build volume.
I made one and printed it flat on the bed but that didn’t come out well at all. I’ve always said that you need to be a tinkerer to get on with 3D printing and this is certainly the case here. After a couple more failures I set up the panel to print upright-i.e. Portrait, and it was going to take 17 hours....
That wasn’t a problem in itself, but the bonus of this type of printer is that no matter how much volume of subject matter is in the build chamber it’s the height of the build that defines the time taken, so I decided to print multiple panels to fit together.
The unfortunate thing about these kind of printers is that they are brilliant for complicated organic forms but not so good at flat surfaces and straight lines, so I know I am taking a risk. And everyone knows about the build layers in 3D printing but I am hoping I can beat them by building absolutely vertically.
Well there are build lines visible and some unexplained weird ‘coral growth’ on one of the panels but let’s put it together with some weld seams and see how it looks under paint. I had such trouble with the solder not sticking that I thought about other methods to represent the weld seams. I have tried green stuff already and found it difficult, but what I want is something similar but more easily controlled. I have some blunt syringe needles (and their syringes) that I bought for sculpting, so I squirted some Perfect Plastic Putty into one and then carefully squidged it into the grooves between the panels like a miniature version of a silicone sealant gun
I had no idea whether it would work but actually it came out better than I could have hoped
So how does it look painted?
I like the fine detail of the rivets but the build lines are just too evident and eliminating them will be too painful. And ,of course I would have to create each panel in CAD, which will take a while.
But I am very pleased with the weld seams.
So I think the conclusion is that I'm probably going to use a single sheet of plastic with weld seams made with the syringe technique, and experiment further with ways of doing the rivets. I’m not going to use metal as I’ve decided against too much denting. The references I am using are of a ship that is 80 years old, whereas she would be only a couple of years old at most on D-Day. I’ve ordered some small pins and insect pins although I'm not optimistic I can get anything smaller than a 1.42mm diameter head. But maybe I can refine the 3D printed method?
Thanks as always for following along
cheers
Neil
