Counterfeit figures

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jknaus

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How can you tell if you have counterfeit figures? Is there something to be aware of when buying a figure or some way to tell after the fact?
I bought 2 figures Pegasso Celt Warrior IV cen. B.C. 75-047 and Gaul Chieftain 75-035 a few months back and when they arrived they where not in boxes. Rather they were in baggies and in an envelope. I thought the seller was just trying to save on postage. Well I sent an email to Pegasso to ask if it was possible to buy the box for each figure and the painting sheet. I got the following email:

Hello james
sorry but it seems you purchased counterfeit products of Pegaso.
On E-bay the 99% of sold Pegaso figures are illegal copies.
I'm really sorry but...
regards
Luca Marchetti
Pegaso Models Srl
C.P. 99 Siena Centro - 53100 Siena - Italy
+39 (0)577 393277 Ph +39 (0)577 393470 Fax
www.pegasomodels.com

Now most of the figures I've bought have been from very reputable sellers, but for future ref how would I know? Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

Oh and if someone has a copy of the English instructions they might want to scan and email me I would be eternally grateful.
James
 
First of all, who did you buy them from?

Were they advertised as "Pegaso" figures?

Was the price way too lower than what it should be?

Was the seller located in one of those countries that
are known for making fake goods?

Well, I think you get my point.
 
We are on the case with one such "dealer" from Argentina who recently sold pirate copies of our 54mm figures. We have to go through the Ebay Vero system. We don't know how long this process will take but it's a start. Unfortunately there is no way of stopping these guys from popping up again on Ebay using a different name/email! It's a vicious circle.

But with regret, we lay the fault on the modellers who buy these kits even though it may be a genuine case of not knowing it's a pirate copy. If a modeller has doubts about the matter, return the kit and request a refund from Paypal.

We feel very strongly about this.

Celine
El Greco Miniatures
 
T50 said:
First of all, who did you buy them from?

Were they advertised as "Pegaso" figures?

Was the price way too lower than what it should be?

Was the seller located in one of those countries that
are known for making fake goods?

Well, I think you get my point.
Click to expand...

Fellow in Australia
yes
About what I've paid elseware
I dont know. Sounds like China and Argentina are bad right now

Dont buy any figures from ebay if I understand you.

James
 
yellowcat said:
May be we should start up a list of counterfeit dealers and eBay sellers that sell counterfeit/recast figures.
Here are couple of them from eBay:
seller ID: caomao1122 from China, recasting Andrea figures
http://cgi.ebay.com/Andrea-Miniatur...U_Toys_Hobbies_Model_Kits&hash=item3a5dd09e3b

Seller ID: miniatnapoleon from Argentina, recast anything in sight. Always listed as Medieval ______ , provided in safe box with colored photo.
Feed back is 100%, must be doing great scamming people. Seller once in a while will sell off the original figure where the recast molds are made from.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120597309561
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120594383423
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120597304751
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120591758592
Click to expand...


I bought from Miniature Napolean once. So he is another to avoid. The other store I looked for the negatives and saw one for recasting and avoided. I think a warning sticky would be very useful, especially for people who are relatively new to the hobby. I usually do tanks and planes and know my way around them. Figures sounds like it is a bit trickier.
James
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
It's pretty easy to get fooled especially when they put the box art on the ad. I am guilty of unknowingly buying a copied figure. I still have him and never painted him once I learned it was a fake. Supporting the real makers of the figures is the only way to make sure we will continue to have a steady supply of great things to paint.
 
G'day James,

Fancy meeting you here, buddy :)

Something I guess nobody has asked is are the figures you received resin or metal? (Pegaso figures are almost all metal - IIRC their busts are resin, as are their Platoon range) Recasters almost always seem to reproduce their figures in resin. Are the ones you received metal? Is there anything other than the missing boxes which makes you think they may be forgeries?

BTW, IIRC Pegaso figures don't come with any instructions - I think it's just a brief history of the subject.

Rudi
 
You find some good deals off eBay if you know what you are looking for. There are recasters everywhere, from the US (ship from Russia), Russia, Ukraine you name it.
 
Hagar said:
I think a warning sticky would be very useful, especially for people who are relatively new to the hobby.
Click to expand...

While that is a great idea, and one that's worth considering, on the other hand I have to consider whether or not publicizing a list of offenders is advertising for them.

Any thoughts?

I understand the frustration...

-gordy
 
gordy said:
While that is a great idea, and one that's worth considering, on the other hand I have to consider whether or not publicizing a list of offenders is advertising for them.

Any thoughts?

I understand the frustration...

-gordy
Click to expand...

I agree Gordy it could go both ways, the honest ones amongst us would blacklist these sellers and others might see it as a good place to get cheap knock offs.

Perhaps the companies like Pegaso and Andrea and all the others who visit Planet Figure could tell us how they feel. Would they prefer to have these pirate casters listed and trust that most of us in this hobby are good people and would refuse to buy these copies?

Maybe posting a list of these counterfeit sellers would help the genuine companies to take action against them. I'm sure they would appreciate the extra help in finding some of these pirates.

Just my thoughts,
Andrew
 
Tarok said:
G'day James,

Fancy meeting you here, buddy :)

Something I guess nobody has asked is are the figures you received resin or metal? (Pegaso figures are almost all metal - IIRC their busts are resin, as are their Platoon range) Recasters almost always seem to reproduce their figures in resin. Are the ones you received metal? Is there anything other than the missing boxes which makes you think they may be forgeries?

BTW, IIRC Pegaso figures don't come with any instructions - I think it's just a brief history of the subject.

Rudi
Click to expand...

They are metal. Look like my other Pegasso's except some of the metal is lighter shade (I dont think that means anything). I guess I shouldn't call them instructions, but I like the history sheet they give and they do have handy painting notes (I find them handy for when I cant find a reference to a colour). Thats really what I wanted,
James
 
I understand the point that creating a list of bad sellers has the drawback that it could advertise for them. Perhaps those of you who frequently buy online could create a list of 'good' sellers. As someone relatively new to hobby, I know I'd use something like that as a buying guide.
 
Gordy, tommi dropped you a PM with an idea we have had on this, could you both let me know what you think please

Cheers

Robin
 
In view of the length of time that the re-casters have been functioning on Ebay it would be interesting to know what steps the manufacturers have taken with Ebay to prevent this happening, if Luca reads this it would be interesting to have a response (I will mention it at Euro)
In my opinion the first step should be from the manufacturer-it is their intellectual property? or is it the property of the sculptor?
If the manufacturer can prove to Ebay that he owns the rights to reproduce the figure then as modellers we can support him/them by reporting cases to them that they can refer to ebay. The action has to come from the property owner.
As a private individual I have reported several cases to Ebay with no response.
I suspect that because the obvious (above) hasn't happened there are some international/local legal aspects to this that we are not aware of.

Keith
 
From our end we have reported the copyrighted items to Ebay and received a generic reply that it will be evaluated. We have also initiated proceedings using the Ebay Vero system (this past week) so we will see where that takes us.

It does infringe our copyright as the masters are owned by ourselves. Besides recasting of items, they are also using copyright images of the boxart.

This has been our first encounter with counterfeit products from our range. We have written to the person with a cease and desist.

BUT unfortunately, there are still many modellers who still purchase from these people, as can be seen from the high ratings they have on Ebay.

We are willing to initiate a concerted effort with all other manufacturers to put a stop to it. We feel that the way to stop this is for all manufacturers to stand together. In this way Ebay would have to acknowledge the problem if we present a united front.

Just toying with ideas to stop these recasters ....
 
Okay how about on this forum we have a sticky of good traders. Then us relative newcomers would have an idea who to trust. And the figure companies could put a wall of shame on their website so people would know who to avoid or who is being investigated at the time. Just thoughts. I personally would like to do the right thing rather than be someones dupe.
James
 
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