Cuirassier Trumpeter 1815

[Huw63]

you are right Huw but for sure in 1815 the trumpeter didn't worn they old tunics.

in some case the Bourbon lace can be used but I think that many rgt still had theyr old green laced tunic

I agree Ivo. In 1815 definitely not the old tunics as they'd have lost them during the 1812 campaign and those that survived must have been rags. So I'd also say Imperial livery or livery of the maison du roi.

What are your thoughts Ivo on trumpeters wearing a cuirass? I can find no references after 1807 and even then only for the 6th and 7th regiments. In your extensive iconography do you know of other examples?

Cheers

Huw

 

[Huw63]

Fantastic information from all... Stuff like this is what makes this forum so valuable.
Thanx for the great input!

Colin

I totally ageee. Go into things with an open mind and you can get so much information here.

Cheers

Huw

 

[ivopreda]

I Huw

I'm not in a hurry doing a trumpeter with cuirass also in 1815. I don't remember documents but the question is: can happen that a trumpeter use an extra protection for himself? For sure the answer is yes...

For sure The cuirass has to be the trooper model

Another point are the documents... Rarely we have contemporary documents to check
Frequently we consider good reference sketch made mid 19th century or in this century

Are them reliable?

 

[Luis R.]

I am away from home at the moment and don't have access to my reference books, but will like to add a couple of side comments

French cuirasses were issued in two (maybe three?) sizes, so if a trumpeter was to wear one, he could get the right sized one to allow for an unrestricted trumpet play.

Someone commented about an officer in light cavalry uniform/harness wearing a cuirass. There was a regulation stating all personnel attached to a cuirassier unit was to wear a cuirass and helmet. That included ADCs, who would wear a cuirass over their regulation light cavalry uniform.
If this thread is still alive when I'm back home, I'll add data and sources to the above.

 

[Huw63]

I am away from home at the moment and don't have access to my reference books, but will like to add a couple of side comments

French cuirasses were issued in two (maybe three?) sizes, so if a trumpeter was to wear one, he could get the right sized one to allow for an unrestricted trumpet play.

Someone commented about an officer in light cavalry uniform/harness wearing a cuirass. There was a regulation stating all personnel attached to a cuirassier unit was to wear a cuirass and helmet. That included ADCs, who would wear a cuirass over their regulation light cavalry uniform.
If this thread is still alive when I'm back home, I'll add data and sources to the above.

This is my pet topic so any references would be appreciated. I'm the one that mentioned the ADCs but wasn't aware of sizing for troopers cuirasses.

Cheers

Huw

 

[martin tabony]

I figured there must be different sizes, as they close all round. Unlike ours !

Martin

 

[ivopreda]

If I remember well there were only two size for the cuirass. Not sure but there was an article on an old Tradition magazine

 

[Huw63]

I am away from home at the moment and don't have access to my reference books, but will like to add a couple of side comments

French cuirasses were issued in two (maybe three?) sizes, so if a trumpeter was to wear one, he could get the right sized one to allow for an unrestricted trumpet play.

Someone commented about an officer in light cavalry uniform/harness wearing a cuirass. There was a regulation stating all personnel attached to a cuirassier unit was to wear a cuirass and helmet. That included ADCs, who would wear a cuirass over their regulation light cavalry uniform.
If this thread is still alive when I'm back home, I'll add data and sources to the above.

If I remember well there were only two size for the cuirass. Not sure but there was an article on an old Tradition magazine

Gentlemen. My thanks to you. The issue Ivo refers to is Tradition no 54-54 Cuirassiers double issue published in 1991. The article commencing on page 40 by Michel Petard describes troopers' cuirasses, helmet and jackets. He mentions two types of cuirass from 1802 and 1809 and discusses that the 1802 model came in two sizes. This isn't mentioned for the 1809 model but I'd have though it true of this too. Rousselot mentions three types indicating an evolution rather than models.

I'd missed this note but thanks to you both I got back on track and learnt something. Martin was correct in his assumption and my hypotheses was incorrect.

This is why I love this forum

Cheers

Huw

 

[OldTaff]

Me,too, Huw, always something interesting being discussed. As I recall,weren't there two patterns of cuirass, an early type which was pointed towards the crotch, the later being more rounded on the lower edge? I've been trying to find the period anecdotes where troopers complained about the earlier cuirass riding up when they leaned forward in the saddle. Having two or three sizes makes sense,too. I've never handled one, but they must be a fairly weighty item of equipment, witness the downed troopers divesting themselves of them at the first opportunity at Waterloo, in order to scarper.......
Going back to bookshelves to thumb through,now........
Cheers,
Alan

 

[Huw63]

Me,too, Huw, always something interesting being discussed. As I recall,weren't there two patterns of cuirass, an early type which was pointed towards the crotch, the later being more rounded on the lower edge? I've been trying to find the period anecdotes where troopers complained about the earlier cuirass riding up when they leaned forward in the saddle. Having two or three sizes makes sense,too. I've never handled one, but they must be a fairly weighty item of equipment, witness the downed troopers divesting themselves of them at the first opportunity at Waterloo, in order to scarper.......
Going back to bookshelves to thumb through,now........
Cheers,
Alan

On the types and now sizes that's what me research is showing but Rousselot speculates that there was a third type... If anyone finds anything a please let us all know!!'

Cheers

Huw

 

[martin tabony]

I've been discussing this with a collector friend of mine (foot guard but I still speak to him! ) Although there were various types each manufacturer had variations.
Here's a picture of his second type curasses. Numbering from left to right, you can see that the arm holes of 3 and 4 are not the same, 4 is noticeably deeper.
Notice also how the waist band on 1 is much more shallow than 2.
The chest on 2 is much more pronounced in the way it sticks out,also wider but not as tall as 3.
The gutter/turned edges at the neck on 1 and 3 are deeper than the other two.
Martin

 

[martin tabony]

These pictures may also be of interest. All second type.

 

[martin tabony]

Sorry for the extra post but the second picture wouldn't load!

 

[OldTaff]

Those are great pictures, Martin, thanks for posting. As you say, they show distinctive differences in manufacture. Can you tell us where these displays are?

Cheers,
Alan

 

[martin tabony]

The wallmounted ones are from the Royal armouries in Leeds.

Martin

 

[Huw63]

Thank you Martin. These pictures are excellent, in particular underlying the difference in manufacture despite all manufacturers being issued exactly the same patterns.

Cheers

Huw