Done

[Ferris]

Cool tip about the ignore option, although I see it as the 'nuclear' option.

Another option is to ignore without hitting that button. In my view threads only turn sour when people start to respond to responses, rather than to the original post. There is much complaining about certain members, but there are always two sides in a flame war. We have a shared responsibility for preventing trainwrecks, and one way to do that is to ignore responses that annoy one, and not comment on them. This is much harder than it seems, but sometimes we have to 'sit on our hands' and let **** slide to keep the peace.

To the mods another word of support. I realize it is probably more work than it seems and I think the right balance between acting and not acting is achieved.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Chrisr]

Personally I'd like to see him kicked off the forum, so many well respected artists and modellers have left because of this person.
Malc

Heartily agree. Better him out than so many good people leaving. By the minority likes of him getting away with their remarks and remaining we simply penalise the majority - the good and decent members. Better to get the bad apples out early, rather than spoil the barrel.

Chris

 

[Babelfish]

To the mods another word of support. I realize it is probably more work than it seems and I think the right balance between acting and not acting is achieved.

Cheers Adrian. Intervening and/or locking threads is very much a last resort. A while back I felt the need to lock down a couple of threads in fairly quick succession (thereby again attracting the inevtitable accusations of "heavy-handedness"). But most incidents of 'handbags' are left alone to slide, and to eventually resolve themselves.

- Steve

 

[Tommy Brown]

Hi Colin,
Sorry that you have decided to leave. It is ashamed that so many members have already left. At times some posts are off topic from the original threads by some same old members and becomes a social club.

 

[Joe55]

Personally I think you ought to stay. If you are set on not doing so, well, I hope you get back soon.

Joe

 

[rossbach]

I cannot seem to find the answer to the question: does leaving equals surrendering? What can one achieve by running away?

Surely my dear fellow you with your espérit, insight and capabilities stand high above the squabelling that sometimes seems to prevail on whatever hobbyforum.

But think for a minute: what do you care? Ignore it! God will tell its own. Shrug you shoulders and stay.

What matters is that you are not jealeous and can absorb critisism.

We all look forward to your next project.

 

[Chris Ribchester]

crf Colin
Don't know why but only just come across this thread, I will point out I am a new member, I read your post and thought whats going on,
I didn't see the thread you are referring to, (before my time) ? . I have seen that sort of post you are referring to on other forums and when
I see them I think oh it's him again and when I read them, I think he continues to prove how inadiquate he is,and I laugh and move on,
one thing a lot of the time these people hardly ever put their work forward to be looked at. I read the posts on this thread and thought
what is your work like so I looked at your galleries, and I have got to say your work is far to good not to be seen again on this site
and I would ask that you keep showing your work, and when you see 'that' sort of post again, just laugh and move on and produce another
figure that many would love to be able to produce, me especially.

Chris

 

[Babelfish]

Hi Colin,
Sorry that you have decided to leave. It is ashamed that so many members have already left. At times some posts are off topic from the original threads by some same old members and becomes a social club.

Guys come and go all the time Tommy, for a variety of reasons. It's the nature of online forums. Like everything else they evolve over time, sometimes in good ways and sometimes in not-so-good ways. Sometimes it's a shame to see certain members drift away, but sometimes it's good riddance.

Tommi took the decision earlier in the week (and I backed him) to escort a couple of members from the premises. One of them (whether it was his intention or not) has proved to be a very divisive presence on pF over time, and caused a number of quite unpleasant flare-ups & the loss of several long-standing members (we know this because they've told us). The other had been the subject of numerous complaints to the mods because he just couldn't resist sniping from the sidelines, winding guys up, then throwing up his virtual hands in a "what, moi?!" fashion and coming over all butt-hurt when warned about it. Again, these decisions are not taken lightly. But on the very rare occasions they are taken, it's done in the interests of forum harmony. Hopefully with these two "characters" gone, the forum will now be a better and more harmonious place.

I take your point about threads occasionally turning into "social clubs". In-jokes and "banter" between mates can sometimes get a bit tedious and frustrating for those not directly involved, especially when it runs across several pages when all you really want to do is read about and discuss the subject of the thread. But as long as it's good natured, that kind of stuff is way preferable to ****-slinging and handbags. Again, it's just the nature of forums.

- Steve

 

[Chrisr]

Tommi took the decision earlier in the week (and I backed him) to escort a couple of members from the premises. One of them (whether it was his intention or not) has proved to be a very divisive presence on pF over time, ... The other had been the subject of numerous complaints to the mods because he just couldn't resist sniping from the sidelines, winding guys up, then throwing up his virtual hands in a "what, moi?!" fashion and coming over all butt-hurt when warned about it.
- Steve

Well done Tommi and Steve.

Chris

 

[Eludia]

I think this was the right decision for the good of the forum. The atmosphere on the site has definitely been a lot less "caustic" over the last few days. Hopefully it'll remain like this and maybe tempt back some of those who have felt the need to leave recently, including Colin.

 

[Tommy Brown]

Tommi took the decision earlier in the week (and I backed him) to escort a couple of members from the premises. One of them (whether it was his intention or not) has proved to be a very divisive presence on pF over time, and caused a number of quite unpleasant flare-ups & the loss of several long-standing members (we know this because they've told us). The other had been the subject of numerous complaints to the mods because he just couldn't resist sniping from the sidelines, winding guys up, then throwing up his virtual hands in a "what, moi?!" fashion and coming over all butt-hurt when warned about it. Again, these decisions are not taken lightly. But on the very rare occasions they are taken, it's done in the interests of forum harmony. Hopefully with these two "characters" gone, the forum will now be a better and more harmonious place.

- Steve

I am surprised that there were only couple of members got escorted from the premises. I thought there should be more.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

This is my last post.

Thank you for the kind words to those who asked me to reconsider. I have done so but cannot return.

I think your forum will be calmer from here on in because those who value historical accuracy and healthy criticism will take the lesson of David's banishment and stay in their fox holes. I won't defend David or Mark as I haven't always agreed with the wisdom of all that they posted. But I have to observe that there are other members still here who, both in the now cleaned up" thread in question and in other recent adversarial threads, who were abusive, physically threatening and vocally belligerent and intolerant of differing opinion. As far as I know, that too is a violation of site rules. Arguments can be ended by banishing one side. But there are others who should take a look in the mirror too.

I won't criticize the banning decision of the mods as they have a thankless job. I did it for a while and found it reduced my enjoyment of the hobby, as I am sure it does for them on many days. Also, I am glad that they chose to publicly announce that members were banned and to provide rationale. That ensures moderator accountability and provides guidance for other members.

I hope the forum returns to health and happiness. I will continue to read along but will no longer post.

Enjoy the hobby and remember...fighting with other adults over toy soldiers would generally be considered rather silly by people outside our hobby, and hopefully by most within it.

Colin

 

[Tommy Brown]

Thank you Colin for your truthfulness. You are a real gentleman.

 

[Babelfish]

Enjoy the hobby and remember...fighting with other adults over toy soldiers would generally be considered rather silly by people outside our hobby, and hopefully by most within it.

Probably the most sensible comment ever made by any member in the entire history of pF. It should be the official forum motto writ large.

- Steve

 

[Babelfish]

But I have to observe that there are other members still here who, both in the now cleaned up" thread in question and in other recent adversarial threads, who were abusive, physically threatening and vocally belligerent and intolerant of differing opinion.

Just a note on that: Abuse and threats of violence are a serious matter and will not be tolerated (I was on the receiving end of one such thinly-veiled threat myself early on in my pF moderating "career" but in the end I decided to let it slide. I still ask myself whether I did the right thing on that one, but I've kept a screen-cap of it in case there was ever a repetition or escalation).

However, given the seriousness and the potentially actionable nature of such threats, they have to be verifiable. And in my book a member just posting up a statement saying "look what a nasty PM I just received from Joe Bloggs" and then just following that up with running text that he could have come up with himself in a fit of anger or pique doesn't cut it. Only the threat visibly posted under the alleged offender's own name or as provided to the mods/admin as a screen-cap (NOT a cut & paste job) of a theatening PM constitutes proof (we mods do not have access to members' PMs). Otherwise we're into "he said/she said" territory and the possibility of malicious and unfounded accusations being made. That is why that particular post of David's was removed from public view when Tommi cleaned up the thread. Unverifiable accusations are a no-no as well.

- Steve

 

[Chrisr]

That's a shame Colin. Thank you for your honest explanation. Every best wish for the future and you too enjoy the hobby. Hopefully one day you will re-consider and post some of your excellent work.

This episode has highlighted the need to stamp out bullying and abusiveness as soon as it is posted. Tolerating it even once just encourages those who think being abusive is OK, and eventually leads to losing good members. Not a criticism of the Mods, rather every decent and mature member should do more in showing (politely) that unsavoury behaviour is unacceptable, and openly supporting the Mods when they take action. Its our forum and all who value it have a responsibility to keep it respectful and friendly. So let's have the moral courage to show more support to the Mods, rather than letting the petulant children have their way. It is better that we lose ten bad apples than one good one.

Chris

 

[tomifune]

Enjoy the hobby and remember...fighting with other adults over toy soldiers would generally be considered rather silly by people outside our hobby, and hopefully by most within it.

Probably the most sensible comment ever made by any member in the entire history of pF. It should be the official forum motto writ large.

- Steve

Won't do any good. This is far more symptomatic of the internet than of this site. People have been murdered simply because of "unfriending" someone on Facebook. In the new age of electronic communication there seems to be less self control then of talking personally. If you meet someone in a pub, have a disagreement, you'll probably hash it out. Not so on the internet........theres no backing down.
Thats why I have a tremendous amount of respect for Paul(Peedee). I've never met him but when he first started posting here, he "stumbled" into a heated argument and did some posting . I feel he thought it over and never did it again. Instead he's been a valuable member and started some fantastic threads, always being a positive encouraging influence. Sometimes I even understand his poems.
Also this is not just a disagreement. The majority of the heated flareups happened in the Latest Figure News column. There is money and sales at stake when someone come in and denigrates a figure. Suggested corrections at this point are quite useless anyway as the investment is already made. Why not lock this column to comments if possible? Manufacturers can air their wares with no interference from ass kissers or critics alike (their words). If someone has a question or suggestion, they have to go straight to the manufacturer.
Criticism will remain in the areas where its requested.

Bob

 

[CGS military figures]

Enjoy the hobby and remember...fighting with other adults over toy soldiers would generally be considered rather silly by people outside our hobby, and hopefully by most within it.



Won't do any good. This is far more symptomatic of the internet than of this site. People have been murdered simply because of "unfriending" someone on Facebook. In the new age of electronic communication there seems to be less self control then of talking personally. If you meet someone in a pub, have a disagreement, you'll probably hash it out. Not so on the internet........theres no backing down.
Thats why I have a tremendous amount of respect for Paul(Peedee). I've never met him but when he first started posting here, he "stumbled" into a heated argument and did some posting . I feel he thought it over and never did it again. Instead he's been a valuable member and started some fantastic threads, always being a positive encouraging influence. Sometimes I even understand his poems.
Also this is not just a disagreement. The majority of the heated flareups happened in the Latest Figure News column. There is money and sales at stake when someone come in and denigrates a figure. Suggested corrections at this point are quite useless anyway as the investment is already made. Why not lock this column to comments if possible? Manufacturers can air their wares with no interference from ass kissers or critics alike (their words). If someone has a question or suggestion, they have to go straight to the manufacturer.
Criticism will remain in the areas where its requested.

Bob

Fantastic, I also think the NEW Release thread should be only for that. Several forums outside PF are the same. Ford doesn't post a new car and ask for comments that way manufacturers cannot be dragged into the argument either way, sales are what matter and fund the next new release

 

[Tommy Brown]

Fantastic, I also think the NEW Release thread should be only for that. Several forums outside PF are the same. Ford doesn't post a new car and ask for comments that way manufacturers cannot be dragged into the argument either way, sales are what matter and fund the next new release

You are quite right. Figure news should just be a showcase for figure producers and manufactures to show off their upcoming new releases only. No reply or comment is needed.

 

[Ferris]

Have to respectfully disagree.
Figure news is news and it is natural to discuss it. In fact such discussion can be very useful. If discussion is not allowed here it can also just be moved to the review section. Discussion should not be banned on a forum.

Thirdly, not discussing comments on releases doesn't make them disappear. People will still have an opinion that influences their buying decision. Understand that it is not nice for producers to hear criticism, but it's still better to know than not know about it. It can be useful to the next release.

About comments being too late to be taken into account in the product: I wonder why producers don't more often show a WIP....it not only allows comments to be collected, it generates much buy-in from commenters. RPmodels is a fine example of how this can benefit products.

Cheers,
Adrian