Figure Damaged At Euro
- Thread starter Edward
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pgarri27
A Fixture
Yes, the biggest problem here was the attempt to repair the figure. Next would be not contacting the owner to say sorry. I had a bust knocked off a table at a show, and I returned to find it in pieces, some of them still on the floor, others picked up and put on the table. I was not upset that it got knocked over, I am sure it was an accident, but I was disappointed the knocker overer did not try to find me and apologize.
Hi
In reference to the possibility of expensive one of models and figures getting damaged by I assume visitors to these shows, why do they not just erect a Perspex screen between the models and the visitors, this method works well at model rail shows, so why not at model shows, it would save a lot of heart ache when a one in a lifetime model gets damaged just because someone wanted to move it for a photograph or someone's child just needed to look with his hands, as kids so often do.
Paul
In reference to the possibility of expensive one of models and figures getting damaged by I assume visitors to these shows, why do they not just erect a Perspex screen between the models and the visitors, this method works well at model rail shows, so why not at model shows, it would save a lot of heart ache when a one in a lifetime model gets damaged just because someone wanted to move it for a photograph or someone's child just needed to look with his hands, as kids so often do.
Paul
DEL
A Fixture
Paul you'll see there's every opinion imaginable on this topic...from....display cabinets to leave as is. The latter is my view, the level of damage, thankfully minimal is a risk that we all take in our stride. The idea of a perspex screen is I think fine for certain situations but at euro figures are being added to the tables all through Saturday morning so easy access is needed similarly when judging takes place. I can visualise a situation where a relatively heavy perspex screen gets pushed and falls onto a table with the resulting devastation that could cause.
This situation was simply a poor but well meant error of judgement on the part of an individual.
BAN BACKPACKS
Cheers
Derek
Uruk-Hai
PlanetFigure Supporter
sd0324
A Fixture
Surely you are kidding,your work must be extremely valuable if you are serious.Are these venues not insured for liability? Or the promoters for that matter? I'm in two minds whether to submit (for the first time) at Telford in Novemeber now...
By the way, anybody else attending or planning to compete at the IPMS show next month?
Pops
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2012
- Messages
- 235
Why would I be kidding? After investing hours in painting and construction and the risks of transporting the finished product to a show only to have it broken by some ham-fisted individual or some thoughtless goon getting too close to the table with a camera bag? Plus, it's not about pure 'monetary' value.
Carlos69
A Fixture
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2009
- Messages
- 912
Why wouldn't ones work be classed as valuable ?! I kno if a piece takes me fifty hours that's some time... Eighty hours more so ... At the end of the day these are original works of art ... This is not any painted plastic model this is art at this level and as such would be valuable. No different to an original painting. Figures may not be worth as much for some reason but they should be treated the same .... Maybe it's this kind of attitude that they are not valuable that causes the breakages, yeah it's ok just pick it up move it there, rucksack strap knocking away but it's ok it's just a figure. It should not be expected at shows to get even one damaged ! So you bust a Bill Horan piece at a show, what would a collector pay for that ? These have worth and should be treated as such. Ok there's not many Bill Horans but the majority at Euro are of a very very high level.
Monday morning blues : (
Carlos
Monday morning blues : (
Carlos
Uruk-Hai
PlanetFigure Supporter
Valuable or not, I like to hold people responsible if they damage or break my belongings.
Just the cost for a kit, piedestal, sign, paint etc lays between 40-100£. Some sculpture/painters sells their work for sums up to 800£, so surely there is some value to it.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
Tecumsea
PlanetFigure Supporter
Perhaps this whole argument could be settled by the organisers insuring against this happening, which might be expensive!? alternatively why don't they just pay compensation to the owner at the going rate, many of the judges regularly sell their pieces so it wouldn't be to difficult to come to a sensible compensation level.....................as long as we don't end up with modellers dropping items to get paid
..I don't mean to offend modellers but there is always someone.......................
Keith
..I don't mean to offend modellers but there is always someone.......................Keith
JonP
PlanetFigure Supporter
I would suggets that if anyone has serious concerns about their figures getting damaged it would probably be worth geting them insured themselves! There is always a risk of them being damaged at home or en route to a show as well.
sd0324
A Fixture
Well, here we go,I too value my figures,(and have sold several to collectors myself so I understand the monetary value at stake) but to expect the shows to carry insurance is ridiculous. How in the world would that be affordable? maybe an exorbitant entry fee to cover the cost? Then people would bitch about the cost of entry,there is some risk involved in life and things happen. if you are that worried about figures being wantonly destroyed by mobs at shows then keep them safe at home,if your work is that valuable the collectors will be contacting you without any risk of damage. No offense meant,but this idea seems silly to me.
sd0324
A Fixture
Uruk-Hai
PlanetFigure Supporter
Where have I suggested the solution to be an insurance for the organizers? On the other hand this show is a business event with a profit, I would see it more costsome for smaller clubs with the insurance bit as it then its in a smaller scale. (Pardon the pun.) Should there be no responsibilty at all?
There is only one person responsible in this scenario discussed and that is the woman that damaged it in the first place.
It should be her money and her insurance. It is a simply civil matter not any different than if your neighbor should trash your mailbox when backing with the car.
Dont most people have insurance should they accidentally damage other peoples properity? Here in Sweden we sure do.
In this particular scenario the show has some responsibilty for the damage being added due to the trial of repair that did not turn out well.
I would like to see a big sign at the door as well as small signs at the tables saying that you could be held economical responsible should you damage any of the exhibits. And perhaps it to be an extra fine if you where wearing a backpack?
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
Seems it just requires two things to improve the competition room and bring Euro back to its best. Return the barriers in front of the figures, they were there for a good reason and ban the use of backpacks. Can anyone tell me why they need to take a backpack to a show anyway? Never quite got the hang of that,its not as if they were going camping in the hall, and just how much stuff can a punter buy.
Don
Don
Tecumsea
PlanetFigure Supporter
Janne, don't worry it was me who had the "Ridiculous" idea that show organisers should carry insurance, what was I thinking? God forbid that modellers should have to pay a bit more for their entries to cover the cost
Keith
Keith
Uruk-Hai
PlanetFigure Supporter
Keith, as I wrote I believe it depends on the magnitude of the show. Euro, Expo-Yes! The local club with no means and just a few enthusiats-No!
Bear also in mind that there is more competition among shows nowdays and we the main exhibitors gone to other shows only traders and a dwindling number of visitors is left.
I do believe that a good show should have the best exhibitors as well as the best traders. One can not do without the other.
The organizers insurrance should cover such things as fires, floods, earthquake, falling lamps etc. The coverage of a broken figure should be paid by the clown who actually damaged it.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
Bear also in mind that there is more competition among shows nowdays and we the main exhibitors gone to other shows only traders and a dwindling number of visitors is left.
I do believe that a good show should have the best exhibitors as well as the best traders. One can not do without the other.
The organizers insurrance should cover such things as fires, floods, earthquake, falling lamps etc. The coverage of a broken figure should be paid by the clown who actually damaged it.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
Uruk-Hai
PlanetFigure Supporter
By the way, entrycost at shows here in Sweden is usally a fixed sum which varies from 10-15£. On the other hand you can entry as many models as you like but very few enters more than five.
The entrycost is low as I see it.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
The entrycost is low as I see it.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
renarts
A Fixture
woof, insurance for figures at a show? really? This opens a can of worms. Who pays the premium organizer or entrant? Who appraises each figure and ultimately what its worth. Art insurance premiums depend on appraisals from certified or approved appraisal agencies. Just because you think your figure is worth $1000 doesn't mean the insurance adjuster does. And insurance companies determine what is necessary for exhibitors to display to reduce the risk to the insurance company. So they may put a stipulation that in order for a policy, you'll have to keep people back 6', or put it behind glass, or you'll have to add a rider to allow judges to handle your piece for judging. After all, each time its handled it becomes a risk. Art insurance covers appraisal worth or art value and insurance value. The two rarely line up. And will depend on market forces driving worth. i.e. art values fluctuate more than the stock market. Its why its a risky investment.
You can pick up a personal article coverage essentially Coverage of individual fine arts items is on a valued basis, not an actual cash value (replacement cost less depreciation) basis as with other forms of eligible property. In other words, the amount of insurance designated for each item in the schedule is the measure of loss of that article. Blanket coverage may be written not to exceed 10% of the total schedule; specific permission is required for blanket coverage in excess of this amount. Note that coverage on blanket items is on a cash market value basis and is subject to a 100% coinsurance clause. No coinsurance clause applies to scheduled items, but underwriters usually insist upon insurance of at least 80% to value. If they are not satisfied with the submitted schedule of values, they may endorse the contract to put coverage on an actual cash value basis.
Unlike other property insured under the personal articles form, coverage of fine arts is not worldwide; instead, it is restricted to the United States and Canada (note that in territories where the exposure is great, an endorsement excluding windstorm, tornado, and hurricane as covered perils may be added). Further, there is an exclusion of property on exhibition at fairgrounds or on the premises of national or international expositions unless such premises are specifically covered by the policy to which the fine arts coverage is attached.
Also, there is a special “pair and set” clause for fine arts that differs from that of the clause applicable to other classes of property insured under the personal articles form. For articles of fine art which are a part of a set, the company agrees to pay for the full value of the set as scheduled but then takes possession of any remaining part or parts.
There is another special provision affecting the fine arts coverage in that the named insured must agree that the covered property will be handled by competent packers if and when the fine arts items are transported somewhere. Presumably, if the named insured tried to move a fine arts object by himself in the trunk of his car and the object was subsequently damaged or stolen, the insurer could use this special provision to attempt to deny coverage based on the insured’s breach of the contract.
I'll take my chances on my own. And hope that people are adult enough to at the least offer to buy me a new figure or throw me some cash for the one they broke. (If they want to make it out of the hall upright)
The other demon hiding in the insurance pandora's box is the idea that people will be more likely to walk away, since they figure "meh...its insured..." Kind of like a tourist with a rental car.
You can pick up a personal article coverage essentially Coverage of individual fine arts items is on a valued basis, not an actual cash value (replacement cost less depreciation) basis as with other forms of eligible property. In other words, the amount of insurance designated for each item in the schedule is the measure of loss of that article. Blanket coverage may be written not to exceed 10% of the total schedule; specific permission is required for blanket coverage in excess of this amount. Note that coverage on blanket items is on a cash market value basis and is subject to a 100% coinsurance clause. No coinsurance clause applies to scheduled items, but underwriters usually insist upon insurance of at least 80% to value. If they are not satisfied with the submitted schedule of values, they may endorse the contract to put coverage on an actual cash value basis.
Unlike other property insured under the personal articles form, coverage of fine arts is not worldwide; instead, it is restricted to the United States and Canada (note that in territories where the exposure is great, an endorsement excluding windstorm, tornado, and hurricane as covered perils may be added). Further, there is an exclusion of property on exhibition at fairgrounds or on the premises of national or international expositions unless such premises are specifically covered by the policy to which the fine arts coverage is attached.
Also, there is a special “pair and set” clause for fine arts that differs from that of the clause applicable to other classes of property insured under the personal articles form. For articles of fine art which are a part of a set, the company agrees to pay for the full value of the set as scheduled but then takes possession of any remaining part or parts.
There is another special provision affecting the fine arts coverage in that the named insured must agree that the covered property will be handled by competent packers if and when the fine arts items are transported somewhere. Presumably, if the named insured tried to move a fine arts object by himself in the trunk of his car and the object was subsequently damaged or stolen, the insurer could use this special provision to attempt to deny coverage based on the insured’s breach of the contract.
I'll take my chances on my own. And hope that people are adult enough to at the least offer to buy me a new figure or throw me some cash for the one they broke. (If they want to make it out of the hall upright)
The other demon hiding in the insurance pandora's box is the idea that people will be more likely to walk away, since they figure "meh...its insured..." Kind of like a tourist with a rental car.
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