French Cavalry carbine

[Banjer]

I am currently working on the CGS Cuirassier bust which has a carbine hanging from a belt.

Can someone tell what prevented the ramrod from simply falling out when the weapon was hanging barrel down? A Google search tells me it was held by "thimbles" but I can't find out how they work.

I don't need this info for the model, just curious.

Cheers
Bill

 

[tock24]

Always thought that cavalry carbines had a hinged ramrod?

BR
Ian

 

[Banjer]

Always thought that cavalry carbines had a hinged ramrod


Now that's interesting Ian. I can see how that would work.

This is the type depicted with this kit.

This is from a search for Cuirassier weapons so not artistic licence by Carl Reid. From what I can glean from limited information, ramrods were either a friction fit or had some form of spring clip. I can't imagine either option holding up to the jostling of a charging cavalry mount.

Cheers

Bill

 

[Mirofsoft]

Fix it untill you hear the clic
It's like fixing a bayonet, you must hear a clic

 

[Banjer]

Thank you Mirofsoft.

I thought it must be held in mechanically or the battlefield would be littered with dropped ramrods.
If anyone has handled these type of weapons I am intrigued to know more.

Cheers

Bill

 

[tock24]

Swivel ramrods were very popular on Naval pistols too - understandable I suppose! I have fired flintlock carbines and can vouch that trying to replace the ramrod [friction fit] whilst moving was awkward - probably near impossible on a moving horse! Not familiar with French muskets, so may be different?
BR
Ian

 

[Mirofsoft]

Plainty of pictures with extended zoom here
https://www.napoleon-souvenirs.com/en/fusils/108-cavalry-carbine-model-an-ix.html
or this model ( see at muzle level rotating part )

 

[Airkid]

In my experience ramrods of this period were friction fit against the wood in the lower part of the stock. Swivel type ramrods were the same. The "thimbles" are the brass guides that you can see on the carbine in the second image (which I think is a French Year 9 - very similar to the British Paget). I have shot both (repros I hasten to add) - they are an experience but accuracy is minimal beyond 50 metres.

Phil

 

[Ronaldo]

I would imagine that carbines were either fired from a mounted halt position or dismounted ,this guys were not cowboys

 

[Banjer]

I do wonder just how much use these weapons got, they are not really suited to massed cavalry assaults. Perhaps useful for a one off shot close up.

 

[Airkid]

I would imagine that carbines were either fired from a mounted halt position or dismounted ,this guys were not cowboys

Good point Ron. Reloading one of these on horseback while on the move would have been very difficult at best. Consider the process - half-cock the lock, Take a cartirdge and tear the end off (with teeth!). Tip a small amount of powder into the pan and close the frizzen. Tip the remainder down the bore, followed by the ball and the paper wrap (this stops the ball rolling out). Ram ball down onto powder. Full cock lock and you are ready to shoot. As you say, most likely done at the halt or dismounted.

Phil

 

[Airkid]

I do wonder just how much use these weapons got, they are not really suited to massed cavalry assaults. Perhaps useful for a one off shot close up.

Yes - one shot in the charge from near point-blank range with carbine still attached to sling, then it would have been sabres.

Phil

 

[Nap]

Yes - one shot in the charge from near point-blank range with carbine still attached to sling, then it would have been sabres.

Phil

Agree there ...more chance in a melee with a sabre

Interesting the way the thread has progressed with good comments

Nap

 

[Old Pete]

He may not have had a carbine at all as I recall reading that the gave their carbines to arm the infantry as the were very short of weapons
George

 

[Airkid]

Another piece of use(ful/less) info on this subject. I believe the French made their black powder in the field, where the British brought it ready made in barrels from the various powder mills in England. French powder was consequently very variable in performance. Can't remember where I read that, but probably in an article in "Blackpowder" magazine - the journal of the Muzzle Loaders Association of GB (of which I'm a member)
The best quality modern black powder is Swiss, although Poland and Czech Republic make high quality powder too. At around seventy-five quid a kilo (before Brexit), it is an expensive hobby shooting these old fire-sticks.

Phil

 

[Banjer]

Another piece of use(ful/less) info on this subject. I believe the French made their black powder in the field, where the British brought it ready made in barrels from the various powder mills in England. French powder was consequently very variable in performance. Can't remember where I read that, but probably in an article in "Blackpowder" magazine - the journal of the Muzzle Loaders Association of GB (of which I'm a member)
The best quality modern black powder is Swiss, although Poland and Czech Republic make high quality powder too. At around seventy-five quid a kilo (before Brexit), it is an expensive hobby shooting these old fire-sticks.

Phil

Hi Phil,

How much powder per shot in grams?

Cheers

Bill

 

[Airkid]

Hi Bill.

A typical .69" calibre French 1776 carbine would shoot 4.5 grams (70 grains) of FG. A British Long Land Pattern musket would take anything up to 5.8 grams (90 grains) to push a .75" ball out to a lethal range of 80-100 yards. Muzzle velocity in the region of 650 FPS but an immense striking energy at 50 yards.
Modern BP shooters (other than shotgunners) measure loads in grains (10 grains = .648 grams). It's simple maths to work out how much a shot costs using the £75/kilo tag. That's probably why I shoot M/L target pistols, using 12-14 grains per shot and smaller calibres (typically .38 to .44).

Phil