Completed GSM London District Black Alex

[mick3272]

Hi Keith.
I see that Pete states that he has the MSM, I dont know when this was but the photo above taken on his last troop clearly shows Five Gongs not Six .He may have got the last one on his way out the Barrack Gate as a thank you. If I was you I would leave it at 5, or you will have to start overlapping them which is a pain.

Mick

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Keith ,

Thanks for the picture ..if you fancy getting all kitted up then great ..I like a man in uniform!!!??...Thanks for any help and looking forward to seeing more on this work

Nap

OK Kevin
Try these they may make things a bit clearer
Pics for Nap.pdf
All the best,
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

Keith,

One for me definitely! The final gong count for Black Alex was MVO, MBE, General Service Medal, Silver Jubilee, MSM and LS&GC. His last troop was 1987 (2nd Bn Scots Guards) and this was the last year they used the SLR on the parade. 1988 was the first with the SA80 and this was Perry Mason's first troop as GSM. The sculpt looks great by the way.

Pete

Hi Pete,
I thought that you just might like this one.
Thanks for the clarification on the gongs. I based the five on the trooping the colour picture where he is wearing a bearskin.
As for the SA80, I read that He was "involved" with the drill at the change over to the SA80. This in mind would it be too incorrect to have a guardsman (albeit in full dress under artistic licence) standing along side of him?
I was waiting for you to join the fray to the point that I was about to PM you for some clarification. As always you have come up with the goods Mate.
I hope that your figures are going well for you, they looked very well on your last post ( that sounds a bit final but you know what I mean).
Many thanks yet again Pete and I hope all is well with you.
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Keith.
I see that Pete states that he has the MSM, I dont know when this was but the photo above taken on his last troop clearly shows Five Gongs not Six .He may have got the last one on his way out the Barrack Gate as a thank you. If I was you I would leave it at 5, or you will have to start overlapping them which is a pain.

Mick

Hi Mick,
Yes I think you are on the money Mate.
I know that he moved on to join the Yeomen of the Guard and displayed, I believe, six gongs.
As for over lapping, I agree it is a right pain. My bust sculpt of GSM Mott had nine to line up on his chest.
Thanks for all of your help Mick, I really appreciate it.
Oh and by the way, I have so much at the moment because I am not on holiday but that will come to an end on Monday.
All the very best,
Keith

 

[prhayes68]

Hi Keith.
I see that Pete states that he has the MSM, I dont know when this was but the photo above taken on his last troop clearly shows Five Gongs not Six .He may have got the last one on his way out the Barrack Gate as a thank you. If I was you I would leave it at 5, or you will have to start overlapping them which is a pain.

Mick

The MSM is the second to last medal on the picture earlier in the thread. The MVO was the parting gift on the way out of the door as it were. I believe it was probably gazetted on the day of the last troop itself. Certainly wouldn't be a problem to show him with 5 certainly with the scenario Keith has in mind.

Pete

 

[prhayes68]

Hi Pete,
I thought that you just might like this one.
Thanks for the clarification on the gongs. I based the five on the trooping the colour picture where he is wearing a bearskin.
As for the SA80, I read that He was "involved" with the drill at the change over to the SA80. This in mind would it be too incorrect to have a guardsman (albeit in full dress under artistic licence) standing along side of him?
I was waiting for you to join the fray to the point that I was about to PM you for some clarification. As always you have come up with the goods Mate.
I hope that your figures are going well for you, they looked very well on your last post ( that sounds a bit final but you know what I mean).
Many thanks yet again Pete and I hope all is well with you.
Keith

Keith,

Thanks for the good wishes. Just putting the finishing touches to a Grenadier bust so I'll post pictures when done.

Your scenario is certainly not outside the bounds of possibility. I have a picture from the 80s of a couple of Guardsmen in full dress demonstrating the drill for the new rifle. Black Alex isn't in the pictures but I'm sure he had a hand in devising the drill movements. I'll see if I can dig it out for you tonight. Perry Mason had an article in the Spring 1988 issue of the Guards Magazine describing the revised drill. There were pictures with the article but the Guardsmen were wearing No. 2 dress. The first time the SA80 was used for real on public duties was an April 1988 Guard Mount at Buckingham Palace. Interestingly, it was an Irish Guards relief of a Royal Marine guard.

Hope all is well with you.

Pete

 

[mick3272]

The MSM is the second to last medal on the picture earlier in the thread. The MVO was the parting gift on the way out of the door as it were. I believe it was probably gazetted on the day of the last troop itself. Certainly wouldn't be a problem to show him with 5 certainly with the scenario Keith has in mind.


Pete

Hi Pete,
Knee suitably bent.

Mick

 

[Wings5797]

Keith,

Thanks for the good wishes. Just putting the finishing touches to a Grenadier bust so I'll post pictures when done.

Your scenario is certainly not outside the bounds of possibility. I have a picture from the 80s of a couple of Guardsmen in full dress demonstrating the drill for the new rifle. Black Alex isn't in the pictures but I'm sure he had a hand in devising the drill movements. I'll see if I can dig it out for you tonight. Perry Mason had an article in the Spring 1988 issue of the Guards Magazine describing the revised drill. There were pictures with the article but the Guardsmen were wearing No. 2 dress. The first time the SA80 was used for real on public duties was an April 1988 Guard Mount at Buckingham Palace. Interestingly, it was an Irish Guards relief of a Royal Marine guard.

Hope all is well with you.

Pete

Hi Pete.
Yes we are good. This year has been more or less a complete holiday cycling in the south of France.
Looking forward to seeing the finished Grenadier bust. There seems to be a move away from the Household Division here an it is up to you and I to keep the end up.
Many thanks for the additional information Mate. It would great to see the picture from the 80s of Guardsmen in full dress demonstrating the drill for the new rifle. That said don't wreck your library looking for it.

All the very best Pete, speak soon
Keith

 

[prhayes68]

I know exactly where it is! I should be able to scan it when I get home tonight.

Pete

 

[prhayes68]

Hi Keith,

Found the picture. As you can see at this stage there was no cover for the SUSAT sight nor any padding around the stock. These were introduced later when it was found medals were causing damage to the rifle when it was carried at the slope. There's also a picture of Black Alex for you (and sword slings for Kev!).

Hope this helps.

Pete

 

[Wings5797]

Great pictures Pete.
It was really good of Alex to lift his arm so that Kevin could get a real good view of the sword slings.
It's really kind of you to dig these out Mate, thank you.
Did you see the JPEG I put put together for Kevin here of Senior DM Simon Philip Ward? I have a full set if they will fit well in your library.
All the best Pete,
Keith

 

[mick3272]

GSM London District.
I have just noticed that since the conception of the post in the 1940s with five Guards Regiments to choose from five out of the nine post holders have been Coldstreamers. Not bad going.

Mick

 

[Wings5797]

I thought that there was an imbalance of Coldstreamers v's the rest Mick but never went through the list.
I think that you have to be of a certain character to be elected for the job when you look back at the GSM'S.
Obviously more evident in the Coldstream Guards than any other regiments.
Cheers Mick.
Keith

 

[mick3272]

Hi Keith Yes a bit of an imbalance, Note no jocks.

Mick

0–1950 WO1 (GSM) Thomas Courtney, Coldstream Guards
1950–1951 WO1 (GSM) George Howe, Irish Guards
1951–1952 WO1 (GSM) Frederick Thomas Aylen, Coldstream Guards
1952–1965 WO1 (GSM) George Stone, MVO MBE, Irish Guards
1965–1977 WO1 (GSM) Tom Taylor, MVO MBE, Grenadier Guards
1977–1987 WO1 (GSM) Alex Dumon, MVO MBE, Coldstream Guards
1987–2002 WO1 (GSM) Alan G 'Perry' Mason, MVO MBE, Coldstream Guards
2002–2015 WO1 (GSM) William 'Billy' Mott, OBE MVO, Welsh Guards
2015–
WO1 (GSM) Andrew 'Vern' Stokes, Coldstream Guards

 

[prhayes68]

Keith,

I hope the pictures are helpful. Great pictures of Drum Major Ward. Did you get them from David Grieve - they look remarkably like his Senior Drum Major figure!

I was told that the GSM London District is selected for bearing, outlook, etc and not strictly on seniority. It would seem Coldstreamers have been in the right place at the right time. I had the privilege of meeting both Tom Taylor and Perry Mason. Both outstanding men - everything a Guardsman should be.

Pete

 

[mick3272]

Keith,

Both outstanding men - everything a Guardsman should be.

Pete

The Regimental Motto is not ' Nulli Secundus ' for nothing.
Mick

 

[prhayes68]

The Regimental Motto is not ' Nulli Secundus ' for nothing.
Mick

I have heard Grenadiers translate this as "Second to One" or "Better than Nothing."

 

[mick3272]

I have heard Grenadiers translate this as "Second to One" or "Better than Nothing."

I have heard this. But you must remember those Grenadiers aren't the sharpest pencils in the box. They are even deluded about the Goat

Mick

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Keith Yes a bit of an imbalance, Note no jocks.

Mick

0–1950 WO1 (GSM) Thomas Courtney, Coldstream Guards
1950–1951 WO1 (GSM) George Howe, Irish Guards
1951–1952 WO1 (GSM) Frederick Thomas Aylen, Coldstream Guards
1952–1965 WO1 (GSM) George Stone, MVO MBE, Irish Guards
1965–1977 WO1 (GSM) Tom Taylor, MVO MBE, Grenadier Guards
1977–1987 WO1 (GSM) Alex Dumon, MVO MBE, Coldstream Guards
1987–2002 WO1 (GSM) Alan G 'Perry' Mason, MVO MBE, Coldstream Guards
2002–2015 WO1 (GSM) William 'Billy' Mott, OBE MVO, Welsh Guards
2015–
WO1 (GSM) Andrew 'Vern' Stokes, Coldstream Guards

Keith,

I hope the pictures are helpful. Great pictures of Drum Major Ward. Did you get them from David Grieve - they look remarkably like his Senior Drum Major figure!

I was told that the GSM London District is selected for bearing, outlook, etc and not strictly on seniority. It would seem Coldstreamers have been in the right place at the right time. I had the privilege of meeting both Tom Taylor and Perry Mason. Both outstanding men - everything a Guardsman should be.

Pete

Ah Boys it's good to see that at least the inter regimental traditions are still alive and kicking....even though successive Governments have chopped away at the regiments. They even have short men and girls in the Household Division.
Mick, No Jocks as GSM London. Have you seen the way that they behave when they hit London. I remember when the tried to steal the old Wembly Stadium.
Pete, Yes the photos are David Greive's. He lived a few yards from me when I was in the UK. and when I called on Him to collect my Simon Ward casting He loaned me all of his research and pictures. A great man and a sad loss when he stopped sculpting.
The sculpt is exactly as you see it in the photos.
All the best Lads and thank you both for your help and bringing a massive smile to my face.

Cheers,
Keith

 

[prhayes68]

Keith,

Don't think I ever saw a picture of the finished product from this project. Would love to see it.

Pete