Help please .....Airbrush cleaning and mediums allowed

[Dolf]

And another video with tips on which thinners to use with the main types of paints used with airbrushes (which includes acrylics, lacquers and enamels, and excludes oil paints), including enamel paints:





And the airbrushing part:








"If I'm not mistaken, Mr Primer is a lacquer-based product."

You're right indeed, Brad. This guy on this video confirms it. Apparently both Mr Color paints as well as Mr Hobby/Mr Surfacer primers are lacquer-based products.


Cheers!

 

[grasshopper]

. Another H&S user..

 

[theBaron]

"If I'm not mistaken, Mr Primer is a lacquer-based product."

You're right indeed, Brad. This guy on this video confirms it. Apparently both Mr Color paints as well as Mr Hobby/Mr Surfacer primers are lacquer-based products.

Cheers!

I've wondered, too, whether those products are called "Hobby-san", "Surfacer-san", and "Color-san", in home market consumption.

Prost!
Brad

 

[samson]

I should add that while I like my Paasche VL, I'm thinking of upgrading to an Iwata. Some of the guys in our club demo'd theirs, and I like how the various models handled so easily. The VL is a workhorse, rugged, easy to care for. But I want to get a gravity-fed brush with the paint cup mounted centrally. I find it cumbersome to hold my VL brush; I want to hold it like I hold a pencil, but the cup is in the way, whether I dress it to the left or to the right. Also, it can't quite do the fine lines that I'd like to be able to do. I'll still use it, but I'll add another one to the tool box.

Prost when you try the Iwatta I’m quite confident you will see a difference top quality product they also have a great brand of acrylic airbrush paint that I think is quite good good also it’s the Medea line of paints great airbrush cleaner as well all acrylic line only

Brad

 

[samson]

Hi Samson,

Thanks for the tips.


"Whatever brand of paint you use use the same brand for thinners, flow improver ( especially important when using vallejo paint lines )"

From what I've been reading, it would seem that the "airbrush flow improver" is used (mainly? or only?) for acrylic paints, because it seems that its main goal is to decrease the fast drying time of acrylic paints (and it seems it also helps to reduce the paint viscosity), which apparently dry quite fast. Correct?
That is not the case with enamel paints. Yes, they dry faster than oil paints, for instance, but apparently not as fast as acrylic paints.

As I don't intend to use acrylic paints, but instead use Humbrol enamel paints (for spraying base coats mainly, on top of which I intend to keep using my brushes for hand painting with oils), would you know of a Humbrol made thinner and airbrush flow improver? I've done some research, so far have found none of these.
It's easy to find the Vallejo one, but I wonder if it works with enamel paints.

As for the Vallejo thinner, it seems its composition is essentially made of water and alcohol. And water I know it's a no-go with enamel paints. As for alcohol, I never tried it. And of course it depends on the percentage of alcohol that this Vallejo thinner may contain.

For all the years I've hand painted with Humbrol enamels, I've always used a regular synthetic thinner, and it works fine for the purpose, which is thinning down the viscosity of the paint as it comes from the can. It also mixes well with Humbrol enamels, never had a problem. After all, Humbrol enamels are synthetic enamels, if I got it right.

Now, I know others do use white spirits, as a thinner for enamels. I do have some, but usually never use it to thin down my Humbrol enamels. As a matter fact I only use it to do a deep clean of the brushes.



"Also take note even some acrylic paints and cleaners can give off a pretty bad smell"

Lol... Yes, I realized that the only one or two times I used a Tamiya acrylic red paint for painting a metal motorbike in 1/9 scale many years ago. Wow! The smell was really strong, even painful! Believe it was the main reason why I never used acrylics again

I know the more recent water soluble acrylic paints are different, another generation I guess, but I'm happy with my Humbrol enamels so no reason to change.
And then more recently, since I joined PF I re-discovered oils, and that's what I've been using for the final hand painting of my figures and busts.

For other projects, such as the occasional military, or civilian vehicle, or aircraft, or even smaller scale figurines (1/35), I'm still using my Humbrol enamels.
So I guess I'll use a lot of Humbrol enamels with my airbrush.
With the exception of the primer I've been using, that "Mr Primer Surfacer", from Mr Hobby (been using the 1000 so far, but may try the 1200 and/or the 1500, either black, or white, or light gray as the 1000), that I mention above, which I thought it was an acrylic primer, but which, according to Brad above is probably a lacquer-based product. And so far, the only cleaner I was able to use successfully, to clean my brushes after priming with that primer is that "Mr Color Rapid Thinner" I also mention above. I haven't used it to thin down the primer yet, as it's not that much viscous and flows pretty well without the need of being thinned down, just as it comes from the jar. Have only used it to clean the brushes so far. So guess it would be the right (and probably the only) product to clean my airbrush after using it to spray some of the same primer.


Thanks!


Cheers!

. Hello sorry for the long time getting back to you . I also recently received a H and S ultra that came in a vallejo model air suitcase paint set I have not tried it yet but I will soon just a couple more opinions yes the vallejo brand flow improver is only used for acrylic paint . I should be back to the hobby soon but in the mean time here is the little I have learned First practice practice and practice again . I have used both testors enamel and acrylic paint along with the testors brand additives I like them both as far as acrylics go I have also used vallejo , golden and iwatta media paints I use the Medea airbrush cleaner after use with the Medea and golden airbrush paint it’s great stuff , I have used tamiya regular line not the lacquer line and have used the tamiya additives as well great stuff . Kinda a rule of thumb the hotter the paint the more smell it will give out . Acrylic being almost non smell , enamel has a pretty good smell , and last lacquer giving off a strong smell you can put both acrylic and enamel over dried lacquer paint but not the other way around . As mentioned above I use the same brand paint and thinners when working with the airbrush never got along good skipping corners. And lastly remember the difference in the needle size and thinning and compressor will come into play there really is no right ratio in my opinion this is where practice will come into play good luck and above all have fun

 

[Dolf]

. Hello sorry for the long time getting back to you . I also recently received a H and S ultra that came in a vallejo model air suitcase paint set I have not tried it yet but I will soon just a couple more opinions yes the vallejo brand flow improver is only used for acrylic paint . I should be back to the hobby soon but in the mean time here is the little I have learned First practice practice and practice again . I have used both testors enamel and acrylic paint along with the testors brand additives I like them both as far as acrylics go I have also used vallejo , golden and iwatta media paints I use the Medea airbrush cleaner after use with the Medea and golden airbrush paint it’s great stuff , I have used tamiya regular line not the lacquer line and have used the tamiya additives as well great stuff . Kinda a rule of thumb the hotter the paint the more smell it will give out . Acrylic being almost non smell , enamel has a pretty good smell , and last lacquer giving off a strong smell you can put both acrylic and enamel over dried lacquer paint but not the other way around . As mentioned above I use the same brand paint and thinners when working with the airbrush never got along good skipping corners. And lastly remember the difference in the needle size and thinning and compressor will come into play there really is no right ratio in my opinion this is where practice will come into play good luck and above all have fun

Thanks a lot Samson

I don't think Humbrol has an airbrush cleaner nor a thinner, but I may be wrong tho. I'll have to do some more research.

I remember that in the old days, over 30 years ago, I used to have some Testors paints (enamel ones as for Humbrol), they were easy to find here, and no more expensive than the Humbrol ones.
But I guess those "golden days" are over now. Anything imported from outside the EU, costs a lot on Customs duties. Shipping costs are also not cheap. Hence the dealers would have to sell them expensive in order to get some profit. And the regular customers, having similar products to choose from, one at a high price, and another at an average price, in most cases will opt for the cheaper one.
So I think nowadays Testors, but also the airbrush brands Badger, Paasche, which are US made, are very hard to find here, and the rare dealers who may have them, the cost is very high.
I'm not sure if Iwata is an American or Japanese brand. Anyway, they are among the most expensive airbrushes here. Even so I know it has a lot of adepts locally.

As for paints. What I've learned, from Portuguese Modelers Forums, here too most of the new generation of modelers are totally surrendered to acrylics!
Almost no one still uses enamels. Except maybe a few survivors from of the old school, like me
I kind of like the soft smell of enamels, it doesn't bother me at all But then again it's maybe a question of getting used to it, I'm sure others don't feel bad with other paints that have (for me) a strong an unpleasant smell.

Harder & Steenbeck is a German company. In general German made stuff is reliable and is supposed to have a long-term life.
Their top airbrushes are also quite expensive, around 250€. My Ultra Two in One (a 0.2mm and a 0.4mm nozzles, with a 2ml cup and a 5ml one) costed just over 100€. I know it's not the top, it's what I could afford. There's also the Compressor (a Fengda FD-186), also just over 100€...
And then there are a whole lot of tools, for cleaning, for this and that... And the new thinners/cleaners... This is definitely an expensive hobby!


I'm still waiting for the Compressor to be delivered, so I wasn't able to use the Airbrush yet. But I'm taking advantage of this extra free time to read, watch videos, and get as much information about the use of Airbrushes as I can.
And then when I'll get the Compressor, I know, practice, practice, practice...


Thanks again!


Cheers!

 

[Dolf]

I've wondered, too, whether those products are called "Hobby-san", "Surfacer-san", and "Color-san", in home market consumption.

Prost!
Brad

Lol... After all, even if Japanese is not one of the languages I'm familiar with, I believe "San" means Mr, or Mrs, or Miss, or Ms, so it's highly likely...


Cheers!

 

[Dolf]

"I don't think Humbrol has an airbrush cleaner nor a thinner"

As a matter fact they do have a acrylic thinner and also a enamel thinner!

Now, they don't seem exclusively for use when airbrushing, but I assume (from what I've read on their official website) that both can and should be used with Humbrol paints when airbrushing, as well as for when painting with hand brushes.


Cheers!

 

[samson]

I really like using enamel paints on auto and armor stuff the only acrylic paint i like for brush painting figures is vallejo

 

[Nap]

Hi Folks

Lots of questions and lots of information with good YT videos about airbrushing

Good initial question and great responses

Happy airbrushing all

Nap

 

[Dolf]

I really like using enamel paints on auto and armor stuff the only acrylic paint i like for brush painting figures is vallejo

Same here, enamels are still my choice for hand painting other types of models, such as military and civilian vehicles, aircraft, and even 1/35 figures, and on dioramas. IMHO enamel paints rock
For larger scale figures and busts, I use enamels as a base coat on top of the lacquer-based primer, and then, oil paints.

But one day I'll have to test those Vallejo acrylics everyone speaks so much about


Cheers!

 

[David Spencer]

Late to the party as ever...
But, my principles are: keep the airbrush clean, get a compressor to adjust air pressures, and never put water-based acrylic through it.

Enamels are fine, but take a long time to dry (2 applications in a day on aircraft is the max (am and pm, 6 hrs apart)). Never tried them on figures, but airbrushes are great for large areas and give a lovely finish.

All points doubtless made already.

 

[kagemusha]

I would be very interested to know your reasoning on never putting water based acrylics through an airbrush...simply because...I would argue...acrylics are a primary medium for such.

Ron

 

[samson]

Yep I’d be curious to know that myself all i used to do and what i plan to do returning to the hobby

 

[kagemusha]

Yep I’d be curious to know that myself all i used to do and what i plan to do returning to the hobby

You...me...and over 90% of current users would no doubt be interested to know

 

[kagemusha]

Guess we will never know the answer then

 

[samson]

Maybe it was a mis type can’t think of another reason for it

 

[kagemusha]

Maybe it was a mis type can’t think of another reason for it

 

[Dolf]

For my 1st test I used water based acrylic paint on the airbrush, no problem whatsoever.

I intend to use it mainly for enamels and a lacquer-based primer, but for the tests (using those that Peter, from Sarnia Miniatures posted here on PDF: https://www.planetfigure.com/threads/airbrush-practices.234401/#post-1061805 ) I used acrylic paint (much easier to clean the airbrush after using it, among other reasons ) .

And then did a full cleaning (starting with water, and then with a good cleaner) .


Thanks again for all the replies, help and suggestions, very much appreciated


Cheers!

 

[Paul Kernan]

I'm not a massive AB user but when I do it has always been Tamiya or Vallejo. I'm embarking on painting my first piece of armour in 30 yrs (COVID madness taking hold), so I've been watching a number of Youtube videos (Dave Brown and Dave Forest at Hornet Hobbies have been the most informative).