Idle musings

[kenshin393]

I was thinking far too hard about what it is that we do the other day and it led me to a couple of questions. You see, I think we can all agree that what we do is artistry, you can't just paint a figure in flat tones and leave it, highlights and shadows at least must be added right?
So I was watching a nice documentary about the Dutch masters and I was paying close attention to skin tones etc and thinking "yes, this is what we do." Same techniques, same use of colour, all that jazz.
Now, here's a difference, varnishes and mettallics.
Not a lot of mettallic paint used in a Vermeer, van Hals didn't use a satin varnish to bring skin tones to life.
The same goes for sourced lighting, lots of it in art but in our wee corner we seem to shy away from it, leave it to the expert.
Surely then, these are things we should be looking to bring into our work to complete the artistic experience, to complete the piece as it where.
I think I need a coffee.

 

[Babelfish]

I've always been of the opinion that figure-painting qualifies as art. Irrespective of skill level, technique etc.

If applying paint onto a 2D canvas, board or sheet of paper is called "art" (even when it's a 5 year-old daubing poster paints onto a sheet of A4), then as far as I'm concerned so is what we do. It's a no-brainer in my book.

- Steve

 

[Babelfish]

As for all this zenithal lighting / "sourced lighting" malarkey, it's great in theory and sometimes in practice - but by no means always

It was/still is the in-thing in some quarters among AFV modellers too (to the extent that books have been written about it), but it's always struck me as a bit "faddy", and can look strange when it comes into conflict with the actual lighting (in a show hall or wherever).

I've seen a few "sourced lighting" figures & busts on here and elsewhere such as on P&P. All skillfully and beautifully painted by extremely talented guys who'd knock me into a cocked hat in a painting contest any day of the week - but somehow it just didn't quite work. At least not to my eye.

- Steve

 

[akaryu]

Have always been puzzled by the pseudo-academic ramblings and the big fuzz, mostly in French magazines, about zenithal lighting, but then soldiers are easily puzzled about things which don't seem to be connected to any reality! The big difference between our humble efforts and those of the museum-hung painters is the third dimension. We paint 3D objects which catch light, overhead or otherwise, so IMO too much theorizing is just stealing precious workbench time.
cheers,
Piet

 

[rossbach]

I am with you there Steve. What it comes down to in my opinion is that our painting techniques should always emphasize the actual lightning. Having said that I always paint a figure imagining there's a lamp hanging precisely over it. Without it this whole shading and highlighting exercise wouldn't make much sense. Although its main purpose for me is to emphasize the shapes on the figure and by doing that enhancing the 3d effect/depth.

As to the modulated painting technique applied by afv modellers: some aspects can be used in figure painting without running into trouble. I would always paint the the underside of a coat (which catches no light) black and the inside of a cloak in a very dark shade of the base colour for example. Basically that's what the afv guild is doing. Modulated painting is their way of shading and highlighting.

In the world of art sourced lighting is an important tool. A canvas is not a 3d shape. Techniques like sourced lighting are used by artists to give the shape that is painted on a flat one dimensional piece of cloth the impression of being 3d.

I have to confess however that I take rather sober approach to figure painting: to me it's a 3d colour plate. Smetimes that can be quite difficult to get right!

Paul

 

[Babelfish]

Have always been puzzled by the pseudo-academic ramblings ...

Yes that's a very good decription of much of it.

I am with you there Steve. What it comes down to in my opinion is that our painting techniques should always emphasize the actual lightning. Having said that I always paint a figure imagining there's a lamp hanging precisely over it. Without it this whole shading and highlighting exercise wouldn't make much sense. Although its main purpose for me is to emphasize the shapes on the figure and by doing that enhancing the 3d effect/depth.

I think that's basically what it comes down to in the end Paul. I think that there's a tendency in some quarters to over-think and over-analyse it and to turn it into a "dark art", whereas in reality much of it is common sense, and the principles involved are fairly straightforward and logical (the hard part is honing the skills to get the actual finish you want!)

In my humble view, a lot of figure-painting articles and books (including ones that are praised in fawning terms as "essential reading") try to blind you with science, and I usually learn more from just studying the photos followed by "trial & error" at the bench than I do from ploughing through the often rather long-winded and waffly accompanying texts.

- Steve

 

[akaryu]

Well put Babelfish! Studying photos, drooling over show reports, 'stealing with one's eyes' as it were. And practice, practice and still more practice, until the finished figure/bust is not a hit or miss kind of thing but to the point where you get more or less the result you aimed at. After over 40 years of painting figures I feel like I'm mastering oils and the oils are no longer mastering me! And the theory, well, to mention just the defunct French Figurines magazine, I was usually bored to death with the endless description of how a particular figure or bust had been painted, no amount of words can make you paint the Sixtine Chapel !
Piet

 

[Alex]

What we do is an art form.
Best lighting for me is a mix of :

-replicating the impact of sun light (zenithal)
-emphasizing the volumes of the object
-replicating the texture of the material : cotton thread, wool, etc.
-replicating the way the material gives back light : you should not paint silk like cotton, etc.

If you paint a figure using only the zenithal concept it will look ok but 'blah'

 

[Forté]

Always interesting to see people's views on this withing miniature painting.

Myself, I use zenithal lighting, but also directional lighting, world lighting, and object source lighting. All depends on the mood I'm trying to achieve and the little story in my mind.

For example, I have a Hellboy bust which I plan to have lit from below as if he's in a dark place but there is something really hot below him and he's looking over down towards it. With that I'll also need to use colour theory as his skin is red which loses its vibrancy and colour when not lit.

Another is a Jack Morgan bust from Black Crow which I'll soon be working on soon which I picture to be somewhere out on the ocean in broad daylight so will be well lit all over but with more light from above to catch top edges and throw shadows.

Like Alex also mentioned, I'm looking more at textures and materials now too so not going for matt metal (apart from part of a katana blade where it's darkened by the maker), and avoiding high contrast on materials which aren't shiney like cotton.

 

[Forté]

Great examples to look at for lighting come from Banshee (Alfonso Giraldes). And for textures you want to check out Kirill Kaneav.

 

[kenshin393]

I tell you what, you only have to have a wee look at Jason Zhous tank commander bust in completed figures to see what im getting at. The face is lit almost letterbox style like you see in old Hollywood movies, the area around the eyes highlighted for emphasis. Simply stunning and it's this that really sets it above many other great pieces of painting in my book, it has that little something extra.

 

[peedee]

Mike Blank, two important words in mastering paint technique.
The light is "in the paint', every time, he is the master of control of an open diorama.
Other forms of light effected painted work best in a photograph or closed box diorama.
when you see a multitude of figures and busts in close proximity on open benches like Folkestone and Darlington these effects can be overlooked or misunderstood.
Three figures painted with right hand biased light next to one with left hand biased light effect makes that one look really weird, I have even seen this happen when 2guys walked along saying, nice, nice, nice, nice, ohhh that's horrible.
I really did smile it was a certain famous 'light painted' halfling holding a lantern on a circular staircase.

I prefer to paint just for general lighting, unless it's in a box in which case the light is required to be controlled.

But....if we don't try these techniques we don't move forward.
many styles are a fashion and will fall away and we end up with a fusion of parts of each technique being the new standard.

I so love all the different styles prevalent in this hobby, just as many styles as in an art gallery. I promise to produce more Jackson Pollocks

Paul.

 

[Forté]

Know exactly the one you mean. Light heavily focused on the face.

 

[peedee]

It might be very interesting to see a few guys all paint the same figure in all their different styles and present them in the same thread here.
It would be an eye opener for many, and could show how I have always been convinced that these techniques simply offer different styles of presentation.

When I screw up a figure, I claim it's a Salvadore Dali influence and anything goes.
When I win a competition I have been inspired by the
Pre-Raphaelite school of realism.

Paul

 

[rossbach]

It might be very interesting to see a few guys all paint the same figure in all their different styles and present them in the same thread here.
It would be an eye opener for many, and could show how I have always been convinced that these techniques simply offer different styles of presentation.

When I screw up a figure, I claim it's a Salvadore Dali influence and anything goes.
When I win a competition I have been inspired by the
Pre-Raphaelite school of realism.

Paul

......................... you clever little man

 

[Forté]

Just a few examples of directional lighting that I really like.

 

[Forté]

Lol...Scotland got their own competition eh

 

[peedee]

Lol...Scotland got their own competition eh

I did say Eutopean !

 

[Ferris]

Fully agree about painting descriptions in magazines...I rarely find them helpful, except when they list the colours used. Sometimes they even make me smile...when the author thanks his family for example..like the article were the result of years of hard work...

Anyway, I'm in the relaxed-sceptics camp about that thing we do. In my view it is only occasionally approaching art; most of it is 'just' skilled work (sometimes very). Reason for saying so is that we basically 'paint by numbers'. Our canvas has been blocked out, and with some simple rules like the stopsign thing, or some other lighting convention and some knowledge of our materials we will get decent results. No concerns about perspective in the base drawing for example....ours has been sculpted already. For me true art is much more creative and original.

Vermeer and Rembrandt started with a blank canvas, and had no pre-formulated colour theory and paints...they invented and made them just like Newton invented the mathematics he needed. I would not dare to compare our endeavours to masters like that.

Having said that, sometimes there is work that comes very close to art and there is much 'art' that did not get that label from me. I most admire art that is based on a combination of skill, creativity and originality. Sometimes something like this can actually be found on the forum.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be art to be enjoyed.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

I certainly do not consider myself an artist ,I am a model maker and painter of figures .
Now there are some guys on PF who can and do paint on canvas and are artists ; semi professional ie they sometimes get paid for there work .
The Pierre Conrad plates are art and he also painted historex stuff many moons ago .
Most people you show your models to don't see past the toy soldier in front of them and are oblivious to the skills required to get a professional finish.

I have seen in modelling clubs the guys who struggle to get a decent finish on anything they do , and actually look away from the quality stuff in there club , but thats a different story.

Just some thoughts