Lancer Of Berg..Help Again..

[moore]

I need some more help.. on this figure...

I figured out the wire.. and it turned out pretty good...
But what I don't understand is.. is the wire I made.. I believe
its called the flounder... is that also the chinscales... ??
The kit came with what looks like chinscales.. and now I am
wondering if I need to put them on..
In the references I have.. it looks like when the wire/flounder is
pulled down.. it goes around the chin and hooks onto the side of the
Chapska. The box art does not have anything around the chin...
I just want to be sure...

Any help would be appreciated..

Thank you
Dee

 

[Wlas]

check these out for shots of chapskas:
http://www.polandbymail.com/get_item_kop40_1st-polish-light-horse-guard.htm


http://www.mb-miniatures.com/images/Marion2/Polish Lancer Marion Andrea.jpg

hopefully you can connect

 

[marcellin de marbot]

Hi Dee,
I would see your soldier, I remember you wrote at the beginning he was an UEM figure (and I understood United Empire Miniatures, but I cannot find him in their online catalogue). Is his uniform white and crimson as used in the first period 1807-1809, or the green and crimson kurtka starting from 1809 in Spain? The regiment was founded in 1807 from Murat, after his nomination at Grand Duke of Berg, as a personal Corp Guard, dressed like the Polish men, with aiguillettes (the shoulder cords), a very rich uniform and CHINSCALES. Later in Spain (Murat was already King of Naples) the regiment was armed with lances, as the Polish "cousins", and took the green kurtka, but they carried a SHAKO until 1812. In this year, they received a shapska similar to the Polish, only the officers had silver chinscales over red lining, while the soldiers had a simple black leather strap. The whole regiment was destroyed on 1813, during the battle of Leipzig.
The links indicated by Majnum show two pics of Polish officers, which can give you an uncorrect information.
Hope this helps, but I remain at your disposal for further informations.
Best regards
Marcello

 

[moore]

Majnun, Thank you I could connect to it.. OK.. I think that is clear to me on how it should look. Thank you so much.

Marcello.... correct.. its United Empire Miniature.. it is an older kit.. and I believe UEM is thinking about re-issuing it again. I am not sure how old it is.
I am going to do it just like the box art Mike Good did.. its a cream color uniform... and shoulder cords I think are cream too.. and then the other color is an amarath, if I spelled that correct.. kind of a rose/pink color.
So your saying that the chinscales look like links of chain.. and they could
hook it up on the shapska when they didn't have it under their chin. So It would go to the corner of the shapska and then there is a "rosette" looking like medallion on the sides and thats where the chinsacles would hook.. am I
correct ??

Also.. can you or someone tell me.. on the scabbard... where does it hook on
the back belt.. near the side ? I had to make the strapes but not sure
where to hook it... there is no back view and my reference is not real clear on location.

Thank you both for all your help.

dee

 

[moore]

Marcello,

I just read something on the Chinscales... those are made of chain.. I did not
know that... so on the figure they are put up when not in use and they do
hook onto the medallion type thing on the side of the hat. Am I correct ?
There is only one hook on the top right corner of the hat to hook the chinscale onto when not in use. Thats what I saw from the link given.
My fusilier I did a while back had chinscales but they were a solid piece and
I realize now that it would be hard to cast a chain like piece.
Also.. I found a side view of the slings.. please correct me.. but the picture
shows it near the side seam of the trousers in the back.

Thank you
Dee

 

[marcellin de marbot]

Hi Dee,
Following your description, the Lancer(?) of Berg in your hands is coming from the first period, 1807-1809, before to take the green jacket and the lance, then his correct name is Chevau Legers de Berg, still without lance. At the beginning they had a jacket "ventre de biche" (cream for you) and amaranthe (dark pink), two colours very loved by J.Murat. This version was quickly replaced by a white/dark pink jacket owing to the difficulty to make the cream clothes. So, the most used dress was the white and crimson. You are right, the chinscales went from a "rosette", as you said, to the other, both on the bottom border of the shapska, when the Lancer wanted to hold his cap, and from the left "rosette" to an hook in the right upper corner when he was dismounted. To make the chinscales, my friend MAB told me to make a spring with some wire, then to crush it, giving the correct plain form.
For the slings of the scabbard, you can see on the attached figures two different belts: the simple white belt is for the soldier, the striped belt is for a NCO (but also for the officers), similar to the Polish lancers. In both cases, the slings begin from the belt in the same way. Officers carried also a silver sash in parade dress, in this case they had a tiny waist belt, holding the slings, that came out from the turnbacks.
In the pics attached you can see also the system of the chinscales.
Always here for other notices
Best regards
Marcello

 

[moore]

Marcello..
Perfect.. OK.. thank you so much for your detailed information as always.
The picture is very clear as was the other link.

OK.. so for the chinscales... silver is for an officer and if not silver then
I assume gold would be ok.. thats what the box art shows.. gold.

I did use fly fishing wire from a spool and I wrapped it around a small
brass tube and got a spring looking wrap.. then I did what you said..
I crushed it with a metal plate.. and it turned out perfect. I will leave
it a little coiled on the end where it hooks to the top right corner.

Do you paint in oils ? can you give me a start on how to make the
pink ? I am not sure just mixing red and white will give me the color
I am looking for. I will also ask in my club meeting tomorrow what
would be a good mix to start with.

Unfortunately I cannot post on PF. Something is wrong with the email
address for me and getting in. But I am on the right track now...
Thank you for your help.

Regards
dee

 

[marcellin de marbot]

Dee,
I am glad having done the answer to your doubts. The chinscales are silver for the soldier too, no difference of colour between him and his officer. In the French army some Corps had gold features (buttons, epaulettes, stripes, aiguillettes, cords, etc.) other ones had silver features. Remember that the chinscales are over a red lining strap, may be this can do the impression of another colour in the photo. But they are silver.
About the pink colour of the Berg uniforms, I don't use oils, I use acrylics when I paint figures, but above all I draw figures, so the technique is rather different than painting a 3D figure. Anyway I suggest a carmin red as base, mixed with a bit of white.
Regards
Marcello
Here, one of my drawings, Marshal Poniatowski

 

[moore]

Hi Marcello.

Wow.. that is a nice picture.. I didn't know you were an artist on paper
and not figures. But you are a great help... thank you very much.
Now I can proceed with confidence.

Thank you again very much.
Dee

 

[marcellin de marbot]

Hi Dee,
Happy for having helped you. Yes, I enjoy myself drawing napoleonic uniforms, I drawn Poniatowski and the other 25 Napoleon's Marshals for an Italian magazine of figures. Sometimes I paint too, but the result is not good IMO.
Here two figures painted by me in acryilcs, my two preferred themes, Naps and Native Americans.
Best regards
Marcello

 

[moore]

Marcello,
Sorry for the late response.. the 2 painted figures are great.. your very good,
and very talented.

Thank you
Dee

 

[marcellin de marbot]

Hi Dee,
Thanks for your compliments, but I have to improve so much to obtain the painting quality I wish. Owing to the timeless, I prefer continue with my drawings.
Best wishes for your lancer
Marcello