Prussian Regiments

[Tecumsea]

I am a great fan of the work of the late Richard Almond and recently bought an unboxed kit of "Prussian Infantry Regiment No 17 Von Manteuffel 1756-59"
I have been searching in vain for information on this regiment and not having the painting guide have come to a halt with the painting. So far I have picked up conflicting information and wonder if any of you can clarify the uniform details.
They may be in the Schiffer book "Infantry regiments of Frederick the Great" or the Blandford book on the 7 years war neither of which I own.
Any help would be appreciated.

Keith

 

[Ulrich]

Hi. Ulrich Puchala send me the attached photo and ask if I could show it here for you. Hope that would helps a little bit

Ulrich

 

[theBaron]

Regiment Manteuffel is definitely covered in Engelmann & Dorn's "Die Infanterie-Regimenter Friedrichs des Grossen", but the schematic from the Ulrichs is much better.

Engelmann/Dorn include a brief text history of each unit, but the illustrations consist primarily of a study showing an enlisted man and an officer, or sometimes a non-com and an officer, and from only one perspective, say, from one side, or head-on, and an illustration of the Ordinärfahne, aka Kompagniefahne, and occasionally a detail of a particular piece of lace.

Having said that, I do concede that I use Engelmann & Dorn's books a lot, but in conjunction with other sources like Osprey, the old lithographs illustration, post cards, tobacco cards, and so on.

Prosit!
Brad

 

[Tecumsea]

Hi Ulrich,

Please pass my thanks to Ulrich for taking the trouble to research this for me it is very helpful.......one question if I may, were the Trousers Fawn/Buff or Blue?

Thanks again....Keith

 

[Tecumsea]

Thanks Ulrich for the addition information, and Brad for your comments regarding research material.
Keith

 

[theBaron]

You're very welcome, Keith! If you haven't received a response yet, I'll check my sources about Manteuffel's smallclothes. I suspect, though, that blue is right out, and that they were buff, or less likely but still possible, white.

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

Hi, Keith, here's a followup with some images from my library.

First, from Osprey's MAA 240, "Frederick the Great's Army 2-Infantry", here is one of the plates, showing an officer of Regt. Manteuffel, with white smallclothes:

I suspect that they were linen, both waistcoat and breeches.

The second is from John Mollo's "Uniforms of the Seven Years War," a picture of a pioneer of the regiment (figure at the right side of the picture):

The leather apron covers his breeches, but the picture otherwise reinforces the color scheme.

Engelmann & Dorn have also followed this for the water-color sketch in their book.

Hope that all helps, prosit!
Brad

 

[Tecumsea]

Hi Brad, really appreciate your help with this, it looks as though Richard used a variety of sources for his figure. I've been confused by the sash? around his shoulder which ends at the waist with a metallic object (any idea what this is?) , as shown in the Mollo illustration you have posted, as regt 30. He also has a cane which hangs from his waistcoat and holds a Half Pike. I understand from an internet source that the Pike and Cane were carried by NCO's.
What colour are the Button ornaments and hanging tassels in the osprey book, they look from your scan as though they might be Gold!?
Thanks again for your help
Keith

 

[theBaron]

Hi, Keith!

You might be confusing some of the other figures in the Mollo plate that includes the Manteuffel sapper; they belong to other regiments. I had thought of adding more of an indication in the image file, so I apologize for not clarifying.

The first figure on that page is supposed to be a standard bearer, a Freikorporal of Regiment 30. The Freikorporal was ranked as an NCO, but was on the first step of a path to an officer's commision. So, he had the uniform details of an NCO, including the cane, but he was encouraged to associate with the officers. He's wearing the oilskin cover for the color over his shoulder. It was slipped over the furled color, and the triangular brass piece was hollow and fit over the finial at the end of the staff. I say he's supposed to be an Freikorporal, but if I'm not mistaken, the image is incorrect in depicting him with a grenadier cap. Grenadier companies carried no colors in the Prussian army, but this is a frequent error, both in print, and in figures. That might come from illustrations of fusilier Freikorporalen; as NCOs, they would have worn the fusilier cap, until they made ensign or even lieutenant, at which time they would swap the cap for the tricorn.

The middle figure on that page is a grenadier sergeant of Regt. 30, so he carries the Kurzgewehr or half-pike, that Prussian NCO's carried. I have a Stadden 54mm figure in my gallery that depicts a similar figure, though I had to scratch the half-pike from a piece of brass rod and wire

You're correct about the lace and button color for Manteuffel, it's gold lace and brass buttons.

Glad to help as much as I can, and if I've made any errors, too, I welcome any clarifications.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Tecumsea]

HI Brad,

Thanks for the description-the Almond figure is a standard bearer, but I had no picture or uniform guide. I should have realised that the item around his shoulder as shown in the plate for the 30th Regt contains the standard. Richard has sculpted the figure with the Hat shown in the Osprey illustrations so from your sources this would be correct.
I've already undercoated the trousers in Buff-looks like I'm going to have to break out the white paint.
Really appreciate your help with all of this.....Regards....Keith

 

[billyturnip]

Thanks for posting those plates Brad, they could come in handy for something I have planned too.

Roger.

 

[theBaron]

Keith, Roger-glad to help! And I'm looking forward to some SBS/in progress threads!

Prost!
Brad

 

[clubcat]

Hi Guys

Only just picked up the thread.
Painted this years ago, beautiful kit.
Replaced flag with one made with pattern tissue paper, varnished then painted the flag. Lightly varnished before misting with water and carefully folding into shape.



Wouldn't pass muster today, but that was the "style" in the 80's



Need to sort out the wild staring eyes



Could also do with a clean

Hope this helps

Melanie

 

[billyturnip]

You can't have enough SYW Prussians

Roger.

 

[Tecumsea]

Hi Melanie, Thanks for posting this, it is the first colour picture I have seen of the figure. I bought mine painted and stripped it, unfortunately it was minus the flag and I have replaced the original pole with brass. I went through very Military Modelling in the Almond era and RA never ever pictured this figure in his adverts, only mentioned it in his listings.
I still think it paints into a very nice piece.
Keith

 

[clubcat]

Glad to be of help.
We need more Prussians I'm awaiting the Fusilier bust that Michael Miniatures is working on.

Melanie

 

[theBaron]

Thanks for a look at the actual figure, Melanie! It is a nice piece. I've forgotten by now--is this a 54mm piece, or larger?

I would alter only one minor detail, which I assume is with the casting, and that's the moustache. As an officer candidate or junior officer, and therefore, a gentleman, he would have been clean-shaven, according to the custom of the day. Only hussar officers wore mustaches, in Frederick's army.

I like your job on the flag, too.

So, Keith, will you be starting work on yours next?

Prost!
Brad

 

[Tecumsea]

HI Brad,

The figure is 90mm...I had started blocking in some colours but looks like I will have to review some of the work...I'll post when it is finished, Mine didn't have a flag so I'm going to chicken out on that, the flag is in the holder round his neck! that's my excuse anyway!

Keith

 

[PhilinYuma]

Hi, Keith!
I know where you are with the flag. They were sent to try us modelers! Mellanie's description really took me back. I have done tissue paper and linen-handkerchief flags, stiffened with white glue and have read (by Bill Horan, so it must be true) that you can roll out AB putty really thin and use that BUT! I have just discovered that by using the paper used in "stay wet" paper palettes like those made by Masterson and available at Michaels. you can do all of your drawing and painting (in acrylics, of course) on this material, while it is nice and flat and then wet it and fold it in any position you want! Worth a try?

 

[clubcat]

The really good thing about using pattern tissue paper is that once you have done one side the other is much easier because it is almost see through, a bit like the original silks.

Melanie