WIP Sculpting Thread - The Combat of the Thirty, 1351 - 54mm diorama sculpting WIP series - Introduction

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Could you please reinsert the pictures?

Hi Borek,

I had some issues sorting out the pics and also discovered that there's a limit of 25.

So rather than trying to re-post above I've attached an assortment below (ex the Almaric ones which are OK above).

Notable takeaways are that:
  • you can't always tell if it's intended to be mail or fabric... but even so mail coifs by far outnumber anything else;
  • followed by fabric (padded?) hoods;
  • bascinets with a brim also common... some suggest that this could be a separate hat worn over the helmet (see that cutting above ref Almeric's and No14 below);
  • several show either a basic arming cap or even nothing... sometimes with some form of mail neck protection/gorget/collar;
  • a very few have cheekpieces... some refs suggest that this is a Scandinavian style;
  • as time progresses bevoirs/beavers/gorgets become more common;
  • as do more rounded shaped and deeper hats, some with eye slots or face cutaways... starting to evolve into sallets;
  • over time chapel de fer/kettlehats seem to have gradually become more popular/common amongst the higher echelons: many show high status and royal knights wearing them (including ones bearing crowns);
  • falchions are common (although as many manuscripts are biblical this may partly be an attempt at Eastern exoticism... though the falchion is a perfect melee slashing weapon);
  • that Holkham Bible and the few other more ambiguous illustrations as my previous posting remain the only ones that look like some form of bearded/integral face piece;
  • the Holkham Bible is here.... the manuscript site has these from it... as far as I can see the one already shown ...(see original here)...is the only one in the Bible with these strange helmets;
  • none of this detracts from your decision to model Dagworth as you have..... and interesting that you say that the one you saw was in fact a separate item (in effect a sort of bevoir?).
Also, I've now discovered that a tag of Chapel de fer returns 1274 images on that manuscript site as here: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?tags="chapel de fer"&page=1

Pages 2-5 more or less cover the period

I've also found out that via my university accreditation I can access the 'Arms and Armour' Journal... I'll check this out but did come across the one attached with the next posting.

Trust this is all of interest/value... as ever, love your work :)

Neil

Hope these are OK (no particular order):

K2-MB.JPGK3-Fr1350s.JPGK4-Cz1330s.JPGK6-Eng1340s.JPGK7-Fr1350s.JPGK8-It1348.JPGK11-It1370s.JPGK12-Fr1400s.JPGK13-Fr1412.JPGK14-Gr1430s.JPGK15-Nth1430s.JPGK21-It1400s.JPGK23-Fr1410s-bevoir.JPGK25-Aus1350-60s.JPGK27-Fr1360s.JPGK28-It1370s.JPGK29-Fr1370s.JPGK30-It1370s.JPGK31-Fr1370s.JPGK32-Fr1370s.JPGK33-Eng1320s.JPG K26-Fr1350s.JPG K24-Eng1430s-bevoir.JPG K17-Gr1430s.JPG K16-Sw1420s.JPG

NOTES TO PICS:
1.arming caps and tub-shaped kettlehat; also wielding two handed single bladed axe
2.bascinet/KH combo (could be separate items?) note ridged crest and mail coif
3.bascinet/KH combos... almost certainly separate items, one perhaps a sunhat?
4.bascinet/KH combos (could be separate items?), again note ridged crests and mail coifs
5.deep/pointed crest... coifs could be either mail or fabric
6.deep/pointed crest, some fluted... note the crown; most have fabric coifs but king/dauphin’s is mail
7.ridged KHs with mail coifs
8.all wear deep, large brimmed KHs... the density gives an idea of the press of the melee
9.looks like a skullcap with added brim... note bevoir
10.tub-shaped KH with bevoir
11.KH with bevoir... wielding what I assume is a two-handed axe (no visible blade)
12.deep KH which could be sitting on an early form of closed bascinet/armet with bevoir... note the fastening hook
13.KH with bevoir... note rivet details (perhaps an integral cap?)
14.wearing bascinet with mail coif... hat could be metal or some form of sun-hat?.... perhaps confirms suggestion that KHs were worn over other helmets
15.very tall and deep KH with cheek pieces, perhaps gilded... Scandinavian
16.classic KH but worn directly on head (unusual)
17.both ridged and plain KHs, all with mail coif... note brigandines and two handed axe
18.elaborate C14th Italian illustration with quilted coif and gambeson
19.KH worn with just a mail collar
20.again KH with just mail collars... note pole-axes/war hammers
21.classic knightly pose... note ailettes
22.trio wearing both mail and fabric coifs
23.fancy pointed KH with eye slits and bevoir... well on its way to becoming a sallet
24.deep KHs with eye slots... proto sallets... note variations in body armour (possible scales?)
25.deep KH with eye slits
 
All reproductions, but as I understand it, the evolution from chapel de fer/kettlehat to sallet (with elements of flared bascinets mixed in) went something like:

K35-Repro5.JPGK35-Repro2.JPGK34-repro1.JPGK35-Repro4.JPGK36-Repro4.JPGK35-Repro3.JPGK37-Repro5.JPGK35-Repro6.JPGK38-Repro6.JPGK39-Repro7.JPG

This is useful (though I can't vouch for the historical veracity of the one bottom right)
K40.JPG
 

Attachments

  • A Late Fourteenth Century Transitional Kettle Hat Found in London.pdf
    583.2 KB
Hi Guys

Due to health problems (not Covid) I will probably not get to work until Monday. Hold on and stay safe.

All reproductions, but as I understand it, the evolution from chapel de fer/kettlehat to sallet (with elements of flared bascinets mixed in) went something like:

View attachment 378407View attachment 378399View attachment 378400View attachment 378406View attachment 378401View attachment 378402View attachment 378403View attachment 378409View attachment 378404View attachment 378405

This is useful (though I can't vouch for the historical veracity of the one bottom right)
View attachment 378408

Neil, thank you so much for the great pictures and captions. Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this project. Thanks a lot mate :)

Fantastic work and a wealth of information Borek! A great thread. (y):)

Ceers,
Ken


Thanks Ken. As for the information, we need to thank Neil in particular :). Thanks so much for the nice comment



Cheers Borek
 
Day seven (of sculpting), WIP No. 13

Hi guys., So after the involuntary break, I'm here again and we continue. While I'm fine-tuning Dagworth (it's a long job where there won't be much to present), we'll start another character, and it will be Geoffroy Poulart, an esquire, one of the three dead on the French-Brittany side, a rival of young Dagworth, and Dagworth's ax will will be fatal for him (with the help of another English warrior, but about that sometime next time) ...

Poulart Coat of Arms.jpg

Before we dive into the creation of Poulart, you can see five wire armatures for five other characters in the new photo. Of the English, it is Hélichon, called Mussard and a Brittany knight in the English service, (Guillaume?) D’Ardaine. On the Brittany side, it is Allain de Tinténiac, then Geoffroy Poulart, and also Beaumanoir himself, the leader of the French party.

I wish you a nice start to the week, and we will definitely meet you at the next WIP today.

Have a nice day and stay safe.


Cheers Borek

Combat of thirty - WIP 13 - a.jpg
 
Hi Borak,

Looks interesting (and challenging) to fill in the gap for Helichon :)

The best I can do for "Hélichon, called Mussard" is based on the last element in that there was a Mussard/Musard/Mussared/Musters/Mostart etc family who came over with the conqueror. According to one source they were awarded arms (Gules, three plates) as below (as in the 1280 Herald's Roll). They're noted in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (as Musard) and a couple of those 'trace your family sites'.
Musard ODNB.JPG Mussard.JPG Musters.JPG Mus4.JPG
Mus3.JPG


The Yorkshire gang started (as so often) with Roaldus Musard who came over with the conqueror (either Norman or Breton) and established a knightly line. The links below trace some of this but it dies out before the 100 Years War (though the Leamington item below says they were still around in the 1400s), so I'm just assuming that it's the same family (or a branch of it). Genealogy site links are:
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/canvas/6000000025846770497
https://www.geni.com/people/Roaldus-Musard-Norman-military-leader/6000000000424999497
https://www.geni.com/people/Hasculfus-Musard/6000000009343803559
... and so on

Musards also crop up in the records for manors in Yorkshire, Staffordshire and Gloucestershire and there are at least four other sets of arms linked to the name:
Musards.JPG

The Dictionary of British Arms cites all of these as various Musard/Mussard etc families/lines.


Musards are also noted in relation to the manor of Leamington in Warwickshire (families often held multiple manors across the country), there's no reference to their arms but as it's Hasculf again I'd assume the same as in Yorkshire.
Leam.JPG


Another ancestry site gives the first of the above (Or, two chevron azure: with or without a border) for Mussard, but other than a short entry in The Dictionary of British Arms Vol 1 I can't find it elsewhere.
Muss1.JPG View attachment 379144


Personally, even though it's 70 years too early, I'd go for the Gules, three plates version as at least it's in the rolls fairly near the date and the Leamington ref puts them around in the early 1400s.

Hope this is useful,

Neil
 
Hi Borak,

Looks interesting (and challenging) to fill in the gap for Helichon :)

The best I can ... ... near the date.

Hope this is useful,

Neil

Fantastic Neil, that's a great job. Yes, I think I'll use three plates in gules, it looks most likely, if so. Definitely great help and excellent research work. Thanks buddy, having you here is great;)

Day seven (of sculpting), WIP No. 14

Another WIP is a epoxy putty armature of Poulart. As you can see, the scene captured Poulart's death. Several more figures are directly related to this dynamic pair of warriors, especially it will be another character on the side of the English, Sir Raoulet d'Aspremont (Apremont) (coming soon).

In the meantime, have fun and goodbye for the next WIP :)


Cheers Borek

Poulart WIP 14 - a.jpg


Poulart WIP 14 - b.jpg


Poulart WIP 14 - c.jpg


Poulart WIP 14 - d.jpg
 
Hi Guys

Fantastic information ..be great to have it on in the Reference Medieval section as well

Nice start on the 2nd figure as well Borek

Following

Cheers

Nap


Yes Nap, Neil does an incredibly great job :).

Thanks for following and nice encouraging comments.

Cheers Borek
 
Day Nine , WIP No. 17

Hi guys :)

So there's another day, and another tuning of Poulart's character. As you can see, the contours are smoother, finer, and cleaner. In short. we are on the process :). Today I'm going to add WIP to the third character I mentioned briefly - it's Sir Raoulet d'Aspremont (Apremont).


For now, good day to you all.

Cheers Borek :)

Poulart WIP 17 - a.jpg


Poulart WIP 17 - b.jpg


Poulart WIP 17 - c.jpg


Poulart WIP 17 - d.jpg


Poulart WIP 17 - e.jpg
 
Coming on nicely Borek... I like the splints on his thighs (as per below) (y)

Do you use specific refs for the armour etc?

If so it may be useful to post them or give links?

Neil :)

WdeK.JPG
 
Hi guys.

I have to stop this work again, this time because of another work that is in a hurry and must be completed by Sunday. So I will continue on Monday at the latest. I'm a little sorry that I have to constantly interrupt, one of the health reasons, sometimes from work, but that's life. I'm definitely looking forward to the sequel, thanks to everyone who watches this thread, thanks to everyone who comments, and special thanks to Neil for his great help and thorough research.

No later than on Monday at the next WIP.

Have a nice day and take care of yourself. I will definitely be here in the coming days and I will follow your work :)

Cheers Borek
 
Hi Borek

Don't worry about stopping occasionally.
The work in progress shots are wonderful and it's amazing how quickly you can put such detail onto the armatures (Not the easiest thing to model armour crisply in such a small scale) I for one am eagerly looking forward to the next episode. . . .(y)
Stay safe
Paul
 
Hi Borek

Not a problem it's so good having a sculptor taking the time to share the process so a BIG THANK YOU

Look forward to seeing more updates

Enjoy what your working on

Stay safe

Nap
 
Hi Borek

Don't worry about stopping occasionally.
The work in progress shots are wonderful and it's amazing how quickly you can put such detail onto the armatures (Not the easiest thing to model armour crisply in such a small scale) I for one am eagerly looking forward to the next episode. . . .(y)
Stay safe
Paul


Thanks so much Paul, thanks for the nice words :)

Hi Borek

Not a problem it's so good having a sculptor taking the time to share the process so a BIG THANK YOU

Look forward to seeing more updates

Enjoy what your working on

Stay safe

Nap

Thanks a lot Nap :), much appreciated. It's a great project and I'm having fun just like all of you, I hope :)

How you accomplish such amazing sculptures so quickly is beyond me. No need to apologize for having an actual life to deal with. Take care my friend and I look forward to future posts. :)

Cheers,
Ken


Thank you very much Ken, is very nice to hear praise :rolleyes: . Anyway, as soon as possible, I'll be back :)

Cheers guys and stay safe.

Borek
 
Hi guys

Verbal update :)

Unfortunately, I still haven't gotten to work. More precisely, to sculpting. Because I've been immersed at work since Monday.

In the end, I decided that the diorama would be quite large. I planned 24 figures. At the moment, I'm sitting over a huge pile of material that Neil gave me here in the thread and in the PM. There is an incredible amount, and really wonderful armours will come in this project. Many thanks to Neil for his research, not only in terms of armours, but also in terms of heraldry and some controversial or speculative coats of arms of the participants in this battle.

Anyway, if my plans come out the way I want, it will be a spectacular epic and dynamic scene.

This week, I will probably work until Sunday (and probably even on Monday) to complete the entire design of the diorama, select the materials for each character and thoroughly plan the next steps.

Next week (about Tuesday) I will start sculpting again, and I believe that everything will go much faster than before.

Anyway, stay safe, I wish you all a nice rest of the week and get ready for a great ride :)

Cheers Borek
 
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