Should Politics And One Sided History Lessons Be Kept Out Of Innocent Pfigure Painting Threads ?

[Carlos69]

Taff its not about diss-respecting your opinion ! i cannot for the life of me think why an honest painter wants feadback to be told HE MURDERS POWS ETC ETC ETC .. why sculpt him blah blah blah .. YOU think thats ok
?! THATS THE QUESTION !! Incidentialy not that it is relevant why do you choose not to paint German soldiers if you do not mind me asking ? As why you mentioned it I'd really like to
Know why guys like you think like you do. Just asking

 

[Carlos69]

Kevin this is a separate thread devoted for THOSE THAT MOAN ETC ETC ... Hence this separate thread for people's Opinions. It normally happens on threads seeking critique. You should hit the YES button then

 

[Filipe]

Incidentialy not that it is relevant why do you choose not to paint German soldiers if you do not mind me asking ? As why you mentioned it I'd really like to

Carlos, there are some themes that i´m not fond of and do not paint. If you want, i can say why, with all respect.

And, please, i do not want to "get into" your conversation with Taff, just offering my vision of thinking.

 

[taffjones]

Taff its not about diss-respecting your opinion ! i cannot for the life of me think why an honest painter wants feadback to be told HE MURDERS POWS ETC ETC ETC .. why sculpt him blah blah blah .. YOU think thats ok
?! THATS THE QUESTION !! Incidentialy not that it is relevant why do you choose not to paint German soldiers if you do not mind me asking ? As why you mentioned it I'd really like to
Know why guys like you think like you do. Just asking

Thats a subject I'm not comfortable talking about in public sorry Carlos.

 

[Carlos69]

Filipe yes I'm interested thanks ; )

Taff that's cool I respect that. I'm not ignorant to the fact that recent wars touched lives of our family's etc .. But I wonder more for those it may not have. I hear it alot that's all.

 

[Kevindunne]

Well, you guys have at it...am going upstairs to paint a figure.
Happy New Year all...

 

[Filipe]

Carlos

One of my greatest passions in life is History. I also chose it as a career, i am graduated in History. I am saying that not to pose as a authority, but to explain that, for me, my figures are like having a piece of History in my room, one way more to learn, to research, to discover new things.

But there are also dark periods of History. That we should never forget, and learn the most of it. But it would me make me, as a individual, unconfortable having them in my shelf, or painting them.

Having said that, i must say that, also, there is a difference between pre-XIX century History and post-XIX century History. We cannot compare the slavery of the Roman empire with the slavery in Brazil still in the XIX century, a abomination for my country.

To make a long talk short, i do not make figures of war criminals and themes related to genocides.

The most obvious example of war criminals are the Waffen-SS. I have a lot of WW2 German figures, but no SS. The most direct reason is: they were considered a criminal organization at Nuremberg. Not soldiers. They did not served Germany, as the Heer. But served a party and a man. In fact, one of my favorite side of the hobby is turning SS figures in Wehrmacht figures; researching uniforms, photos, insignias, changing them, etc.

Other example, a polemic one, i would not make figures related to genocides. In Soviet russia, in european imperial colonies in the XIX Century, like in India or Ivory Coast, etc. Entire populations suffered a lot in some regions and periods.

"Oh, but the romans killed entire populations of gauls". Yes, but there was a different time. In philosophy, in law, in civilization.

For me, the wrong thing to do is to poing fingers. I, Filipe, do not paint SS figures. If you do, i must respect that. I can comment your painting, your sculpture, a historical error, etc. But cannot say "Hey, you are wrong to do this figure". But the other way is true. If i do not paint a figure of Pol Pot, i want respect too.

But the discussion is always valid, in good terms and the right place.

I tried to shortened my argument the most, anyway, sorry for the long post.

Regards

Filipe

Ps: Sorry for some grammar mistakes, did not revised the text.

 

[Alex Long]

It's a yes from me. I find it pretty tedious having to filter out the political commentry that so often overpowers threads which should be purely devoted to the critique or appraisal of someones model. I wish the people who post negative comments about their peers figure choices would resist the compulsion to vent off their opinions, put their handbags away and not highjack threads intended for constructive input about our hobby.

After all, Planet Figure is a community built around miniature painters, sculptors and collectors with the aim of exchanging support, information and resources.

Alex.

 

[polyphemus]

Assuming there is a consensus favouring a no politics policy (and yes that's self contradictory) then I wonder who will have the unenviable job of monitoring all the posts & threads.

Geoff

 

[Carlos69]

Geoff is it ?! Lol !! - ME I will be a fair MOD !! How about just a policy of, if some body asks for CRITIQUE ON HIS/HERS Sculpting or paint leave out the, HE'S A WAR CRIM, HE murdered so and so ... How about the forum adopts that policy ? Politics ??? Lol

 

[Sturm Grenadier]

Hello Carlos, I voted yes. And thank you my friend. Regards, SG

 

[Mark S]

The ironing here is delicious.
Why start a thread designed to discuss politics in a thread where you're arguing against discussing politics in threads??!!?
Enoughs enough, keep political polls out of figure related forums...

 

[Carlos69]

Mark S another worthless comment ... Zzzzz..

 

[DEL]

Carlos

One of my greatest passions in life is History. I also chose it as a career, i am graduated in History. I am saying that not to pose as a authority, but to explain that, for me, my figures are like having a piece of History in my room, one way more to learn, to research, to discover new things.

But there are also dark periods of History. That we should never forget, and learn the most of it. But it would me make me, as a individual, unconfortable having them in my shelf, or painting them.

Having said that, i must say that, also, there is a difference between pre-XIX century History and post-XIX century History. We cannot compare the slavery of the Roman empire with the slavery in Brazil still in the XIX century, a abomination for my country.

To make a long talk short, i do not make figures of war criminals and themes related to genocides.

For me, the wrong thing to do is to poing fingers. I, Filipe, do not paint SS figures. If you do, i must respect that. I can comment your painting, your sculpture, a historical error, etc. But cannot say "Hey, you are wrong to do this figure". But the other way is true. If i do not paint a figure of Pol Pot, i want respect too.

Regards

Filipe

Ps: Sorry for some grammar mistakes, did not revised the text.

I think Filipe has made some very valid points from a personal level.....many of which resonate with me.
I regard my models as a enhancement to my interest in history or to be more specific certain periods in history. Consequently I have no problem with others modelling and painting whatever they like.......What would give me concern is where someone would paint or collect as a means of celebrating the actions of genocidal maniacs regardless of historical context.
History provides us with references as to the way we conduct our daily lives. Moreover it's legacy helps us clarify the primary and fundamental fact that each human life is a creative entity full of potential that should be respected and nurtured.
I don't paint SS figures....they simply don't interest me........I do paint Mongols though

 

[Carlos69]

Del I also agree paint what you like. However you say it would concern you the collections of genocidal maniacs ... Hitler ? My collection has alot of Germans in it, SS soldiers ( not committing war crimes or genocide I might add ) does that give you concern and how do you determine I paint these purely out of historical interest and not to celebrate their actions ?!! As you put it ? I'm all for history but again my point is keep the anti German, SS, he's a murderer comments out of threads that ask critique etc ..

I'm sure this thread is heading in the wrong direction. It's simple I'm not asking anything else, keep the crap comments out or not ?!

 

[Mark S]

Mark S another worthless comment ... Zzzzz..

Gee thanks Carlos...nice.
I guess if I'd eagerly embraced your idea of stirring up another polictical discussion just to hammer home your own point of view my comments wouldn't be so worthless.
I happen to believe the original political comments inspired by the "Che" Guevara bust were totally out of order.They were a rude and disgraceful display of arrogance imo.
But your own attitude towards some here who have simply expressed their own opinion isn't much better.

 

[Carlos69]

+ you should!nt need much reference on the Mongol front ? Let me know if you get stuck there's a few here who could help

 

[Carlos69]

Stirring up another political discussion Mark ? Like I'm allways doing that ?! Your right I'm as bad as the muppets here who bang on every thread with there non painting related crap ....

I'd actually put you in their class with your non related modelling crap

 

[Colin_Fraser]

I voted for # 3. I think military history and politics are inseperable and I start with the rebuttable presumption that we are all grownups here. That doesn't mean that I think its appropriate for a person who is asking for artisitic critique to be slagged for their choice of subject.

But in my books, if you choose to publicly present a bust of Himmler, Heydrich, Stalin or many other more recent characters (some of whom I could start another range war by merely mentioning), you are either deliberately courting notoriety or you are hopelessly out of touch with the feelings of most of the rest of the world.

Colin

 

[Johan]

We paint figures of soldiers. Soldiers fight wars.
War is not a fight between good and evil, between heroes and demons, but it's a horrible nasty affair of men against men; men who, on both sides, can love, cry for the loss of beloved ones, and can bleed and feel pain.
... It is strange therefore that the warmongers in history were mostly men who believed , or had others believe, that war was something like a beautiful and noble fight of heroes against vilains - I guess in the beginning even Hitler was an idealist who wanted a better world ...
So, even if wars are started for "politics" or to make a better world, in the end we make miniatures of the soldiers who fought them and died in them, of the reality, of history, and try to do it in a tasteful way (no gore, no figures in the middle of a grisly act of violence).

Why don't we use the name "historical miniature" anymore I wonder ? I think that sums it up well.

I have noticed that today another thread on the forum about how a certain panzer commander might have been dressed in the battle of the bulge was hijacked by members who expressed their disapproval of the subject, bringing up the malmédy affair etc. and "War Crimes" ; I would say this : while there is ample proof that Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Göring etc. + the C in C's of the Wehrmacht were 100% responsible for starting a war of destruction, the " war crimes" of the soldiers in the field will always be a controversial topic ... both sides have killed POW's, the Allied B-17's and Lancasters killed many innocent civilians both in Germany and in occupied countries, the Germans killed many innocent civilians each time after some less innocent civilians decided to kill Germans and sometimes mutilate them ... there will always be arguments and counter-arguments if we bring this up.

I was recently pondering to start trying a conversion of a german figure into a member of the Vlaamse wacht, a militia of black-uniformed Flemish collaborators in Belgium, and put this figure in a vignette with a Feldgendarme, both standing in front of a wall with SS-recruiting posters, while a copy of a popular Belgian magazine lies in the gutter of a rainy street - to illustrate the grim reality of "1943" ... but I'll better leave it at that.