So why should we be here ?

[kevininpdx]

I think another thing to mention is this hobby has almost 0 visibility in retail stores. I was a game related miniature painter for years and never noticed that there was a market for larger scale historical figures. One day I stumbled onto PF. Pegaso recently posted but I have not seen them since. IMO this is the best hobby out there and needs to grow. I mention the miniature war game hobby because that is the demographic that will jump on board. However if these people don't even know the hobby exists then how can it grow?

 

[Martin64]

Recruitment:
the kind of members we need to build up the perfect PF-world

sorry - couldn`t resist - it is extreme tongue in cheek but maybe some fun is still allowed.
Cheers, Martin (hiding in his favorite swamp)

 

[BarrieHynd]

Just read through this myself and I have now found myself at boiling point by some of the comments made towards Graham and CGS Military Figures.
Yes he has asked for members opinions, (the whole point of the thread) most of which have been polite and constructive from what I can see but, c'mon, why the almost warlike attitude Mark?
I met Graham for the first time at euro last year, we had spoke by pm on here before then, and he came across to me as a man, not a child passionate about each and every one of his pieces he produces.I also know how much he puts into research and the hours he puts in. He actually helped me out on some information about a uniform I wasn't sure of.
Why is it that recently he has been forced to back up a couple of his releases with proof of what research material he has used for the masters? Don't think I have seen any other manufacturers having to do this. If I am wrong on that then I apologise now.
Seems to me that people are for getting that CGS is not as big as some of the other companies but the service, castings, prices, and subject matter are just as equall if not better in some parts.
You just have to look on here to see that he has a worldwide customer base, that must mean something surely!
Right, thats my wee rant over, off to my table to paint something.
Barrie.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

I really don't have the stamina to read all this. I scanned it and saw nothing new. Two camps once again.....those who want to speak freely even if critically and those who don't want adverse comments to be made because of possible negative economic consequences. This is the sort of unending discussion is that is eroding the tone on PF in my eyes.

I will continue to comment, pro and con, on figures that take my interest, including accuracy issues. If some one thinks I have been unfair or unnecessarily harsh, please PM and I will seriously review my comments and seriously consider editing them. I did that a couple of years ago when It was drawn to my attention that I had gone somewhat overboard on critiquing a figure of von Stauffenberg.

I will make a couple of possibly controversial observations. PF has a reputation, I think undeserved, of being an "atta boy" club where every piece is greeted with a chorus of "excellents" and "greats." I don't think this is true. But it seems to me some wish this to become reality, at least for new commercial releases.

Also some manufacturers, like Gra and Stu, have my admiration as they take a full member's role by looking at and commenting on threads and projects that don't relate to their product lines. But many pro painters and sculptors only show up to post their stuff and take a bow. Some never comment on others' works. Just think of the encouragement they could offer to some of our beginners and newbies if they took the time to take a look and drop an "atta boy." Or even provide a useful criticism. Bill Horan took the time to comment on and constructively critique one of my projects a few years ago when he was here briefly. That was a good day.

I for one would be sorry to lose your input Gra as you are more than a manufacturer to this site.

Colin

 

[Mark S]

Geez, I gave my opinion the best way I could express it and I get accused of rocking the boat or being war like.
Every time I'm invited to express myself here I get this negative reaction.
It's taken me over fifty years to develop my point of view.......well if people won't agree with me and respect my opinion as being flawless, irreproachable and enlightened I'm going to leave Planet Figure for good.......

 

[Gaudin]

I second what Colin says and I can hardly add anything.

May I point out to everyone including moderators, how posts are worded from people who value historical accuracy and how people who are against rivet counting are wording their replies.

"Dont let the B*****ds get you down"

"Because some ******* bad mouthed it"

"Mr Dogs Piss who has to cock his leg to leave is mark so he can go"

And this is just this thread.

So what is it we are supposed to infer from this? All of us who value historical accuracy are bastards and ********?

Well, thank you very f***ng much, you lovely rescuer paladins.

It seems regular appearance in every thread that people from certain side of the argument (exclusively?) seem to descent into personal attack or general vague abuse, whilst others are walking on eggshells.

You are talking about sad leaving of a valued member, do you account for how many valued members left silently without drama just because of this constant disrespect and hushing down?

 

[mick3272]

I think what you should get from this is. It is a hobby not the be all and end all of life on earth. Figure detail and accuracy have come on leaps and bounds since I started.
Yes their will be blips from time to time , some will be totally wrong and some will be open to interpretation. We all value detail and accuracy but if the product is not up to your standard then its simple dont buy it.
mick

 

[Gaudin]

Mick,
I have not raised any issue about accuracy or buy not buy or importance of the issue in existential terms.
It is clear that opposing views will remain and are equally valid/ held equally strongly.

I am simply (and only) inviting people to notice what I notice about attitude of certain group of people and making a comparison with group with opposite view and how they conduct themselves in this argument.

Nuff said.

 

[Alex]

I don't think that manufacturers should post in the news section of this forum. By doing so, they expose themselves as being bashed on the public place about some trivial points. No need for that. They can answer when members have a question but why risk it all ? Also, it can be seen as self promoting your products and this is not a good thing.

However, as a painter, when I post, I expect people to make negative comments. Any critique I will welcome it. Bring it on !!!
Cheers
Alex

 

[Richie]

Why are we here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A common passion for military modelling, painting, sculpting, converting, military research, knowledge, advice, tips, tricks, forming friendships, the social side on here, club meets, modelling with a buddy and meeting up shows, swapping common interests, advice, sharing and a free forum to share with the world your subject of passion.

It is a big family my brothers and not everyone in every family gets on, that's just life, my own family are included in that. Passion can explode into many forms of expression, I include humour in this which can also be misconstrued, sometimes it's just a case of reading between the lines.

Sometimes it's just taking one on the chin. Not a release (although have did change something because of feedback) but a project of mine, I sculpted Capt. Lord Beresford on horseback, my post was put up, he won't mind me mentioning his name, but Gaudin drew all over the photo and posted it back. There were some many errors in what I done I was glad to take the hit, the pliers came out and I was back to a wire armature. Thanks mate for being so direct, honest and helpful, I now know what he is like first hand and the passion he has. What I mean by the former is Gaudin and we are friends has a real passion for anatomical and military accuracy and if need be, debating any grey issues in pursuit of this. I single him out, but we all are like that on here.

I agree that research can be very frustrating and time consuming, as previously stated after 1850 it becomes a bit easier due to photograph's. I have even read dress regulations to nail down points for my own benefit, is that rivet counting or just looking for accuracy. There is a wealth of knowledge on here and I have been asked on quite a few occasions to help people out from all around the world with research and I was happy to do it. There is a free willing resource on here why not use it and benefit from it.
I did not let any cats out of any bags on up and coming projects, I have even seen projects scrapped that you have never seen after putting a weeks research in. I'm sure there is a lot of other people who do the same, because of their passion.

I have purchased kits, with slight errors and not commented on them, sometimes I have, probably because I know I can fix them because of my passion for the subject.

I have used this word passion liberally in this post and people have left and joined this site because of that word, but that word, before it's expressed should be accompanied by a few others. We all have the right of free expression on here and long may that continue.

Those words should be recoil, reflective, awareness, proficient, control, evaluation and factual. If we applied those words with passion then maybe things would not end up miscomprehended and heated. At the end of the day we are trying to attack historical accuracy not each other my brothers. And it saddens me when one of my brothers leave. Respect.

cheers
Richie

 

[Nap]

Richie ,

You said it in one word mate ..we all have PASSION for our hobby .

Nap

 

[ellie]

You know guys no one is going to win this one. but some people are going to lose, what if manufactures like myself decide that enough is enough and stop posting and say to hell with PF and just release stuff on other forums. that would have a negative effect for us all. what I think is a good way to go may be if you see a problem then contact the manufacture by PM have a chat about it then if need be more advice is needed then open it up on another section and discuss it in a professional manner. that way it my just stop the petty arguing that erupts.

Every one is entitled to their opinion but it could be done in a more professional manner. we all have egos we all love to be parsed but some times we have to take the ruff with the smooth. Like Richie says we have a passion for the subject don't you think we as manufactures want it to be right? or do you think we are happy just to bang things out regardless. not in the case of everyone that I know on here. but sometimes we may just tweak something to make it more interesting . Hollywood do it all the time but do we stop going to see the movie no we go because we enjoy it. we know it might not be right but we still go and still enjoy it.

I will say again we as manufactures do our best to get things right maybe sometimes it's based on an artist impression as that maybe all we have to go on. for those who want it to 100% correct then their is always the putty, for those who just enjoy seeing a great figure then pick up your brushes and enjoy. but for the sake of the hobby lets just agree to disagree and get on with a hobby that I have enjoyed since I was a small boy and have now passed on to my kids. their is enough petty arguments in the world with out starting a war on here about who is right and who is wrong. at the end of the day the only people that know are the ones that were their and they have long since passed.

Lets get back to what we do best and that's modelling at the end of the day with out sculptors and manufactures most people would have nothing to do but wish.

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[megroot]

I read this thread four times.
I can only say: I'm with Ian and Richie.
They sayed it all for me.

Lets go painting.

Marc

 

[TADATSUGU]

I was going to go into manufacturing myself. I was going to do Winston Churchill uni-cycling across Pegasus Bridge in a pork pie hat and smoking a meerschaum pipe. I know he probably never did any of these things but I don't really care and I can't be bothered checking it out either. I was thinking of asking how many members would heap praise on me so that I could work out my potential profit margin, but I have now gone off the idea in case someone might criticise me - the Horror!

 

[stu]

I cant really repeat what i would like to say to that and my scouse aint bad.

You have just belittled every manufacturer on this site.

Passion is what we all have in abundance...no manfacturer minds critique but hey that post sums up whats been going on here. Tadatsugu or whatever youcall yourself ..well done

This is me talking as well no buisness interest at all.

Stuart s hale

 

[ellie]

Your right stu, tried to be sensible about it but you always get the one that has to take it to the extreme. I know what I will do with future releases I will run it past people before I commission it that way I just might please everyone. Ho sorry I just got a load of info from the Museum d' Army in Paris on the new bust I have just commissioned from moz better make sure they are right as they don't know what they are talking about. I should know better than to try and research anything myself. looking forward to seeing all the comments on how the buttons are wrong the rifle is wrong and he would not have facial hair.

Now that's me being just as childish as Tadatsugus post (Sorry if it's offended but silly comments like that just piss me off)

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Sorry David....I have to mostly agree with Stu. Your post was uncalled for and reduced what is a conflict of two equally legitimate points of view into a ludicrous one. I wouldn't want to be associated with your position if your post sums it up. But I also disagree with Stu's assertion that it symbolizes what the issue is. I am starting to see an absence of hope.

Colin

 

[ellie]

Their is hope Colin, but comments like David's just push people away from trying to find common ground. and get the kind of response I posted maybe I should have given my reply more thought but sometimes things have to be said.

ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Martin64]

Most likely this is of no avail - so I keep it short and then finish with posting on this thread.
1. the thread was about why a manufacturer should be on PF if his pieces might get critical comments that might damage his business
2. not everybody was giving the same opinion about that topic - surprise surprise!
Now it is again about historical correctness and threats that people might leave PF.
Buttons and else can be corrected and people will buy a nice figure regardless if all buttons are there. But comments on possible errors should be tolerated without all this whimpering - several of you guys are ex-soldiers - what did you do when things got rough back then??
Especially - and I know that I am repeating myself - WHEN NOBODY IS QUESTIONING THE QUALITY OF YOUR RELEASE AS A WHOLE BUT JUST QUESTIONES ONE DETAIL. Maybe you have to live with that if you open a thread or put a piece on display.
Now calm down or go on - I don`t care any longer.
Cheers, Martin

 

[Wayneb]

What a shame it has gotten to this...........Wayne