the way i see our hobby,

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tony wilbraham

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ok ive felt it neccassary to air my thoughts and controversial they might be, ive been in the hobby since I was a kid, I went on to work as a box art painter for many of the English companies and some foreign ones, ive met some fantastic people and some jerks, but I always believed our passion for painting or collecting figures was a hobby and should still be, but I truly believe we are being priced out, I think the hobby has become a middle aged guys hobby and an expensive one, ive seen prices for 54-75mm for £40 and upwards, 90mm for £90 and upwards, I see figure companies turning out models by the bucket load, but I do not see the next generation of youngsters coming into our hobby, ok you can go to a show and find one or two in the junior section but that's not good enough, ok its a different era now and xbox has taken over but no mum or dad would pay the prices for a model compared to hours of fun gaming, ok so where am I leading this, recasters - ive just been messaged by pegaso because YES I bought some cheaper models with the intention of painting them for my own collection, I now need the money for a certain project im doing and the project is almost completed so I decided to sell some of my own collection off along with the recasts, NOW lets get this straight if I can buy something that is cheaper I will do so and I will continue to do so, I have no loyalty in any figure company just the same as they have no loyalty to us paying public, 99% of you will buy something cheaper than the original if the item is ok, that's a fact of life ! I know the prices for sculpting, resin,making of moulds, casting, advertising ect yet we are still being ripped off! if you figure companies put your prices down to affordability you would sell more that is a fact! limited runs are so that you sell sell sell, get them while you can ! who`s ripping who off ! ok as for the recasters yes I agree they are scum, ok I bought off these guys, of which again comes down to affordability! if I can pay a few pounds for the same models that's going to cost near the £100 mark then im not stupid, and many others off this site have also bought off them but do not have the balls to own up to it, im not saying the figure prices should be as low as what they are selling them for but lets be reasonable, I hear all the bitching from the figure companies and telling us not to buy them because its there lively hood - this was once a hobby and an affordable one with many youngsters - when was the last time you saw a youngster post on here ? again its ok for the sculptors to steal other sculptors bits n pieces and use them in their creations yet nothing is ever ever said about this, that is also stealing, I know several sculptors that do this, anyone who knows me knows im a good guy and I will help anyone where its needed, I don't begrudge you figure companies making a living but don't bitch that someone is stealing or casting your stuff then ask us to not buy them, the way I see it we are all in it together its a HOBBY and should be an affordable one, I know what certain people are making out of the hobby of ours and they have no loyalty to us, guys take one step back help the average working class guy to afford these superb creations and in return we can buy them and stop the recasters, but until that day comes I for one will continue to look for a bargain,
 
you would be your a manufacturer, but staurt you know me and we go back years my friend, this is my take on it, so you don't go out in the big bad world and buy bargains, bull, you go buy a washing machine and the dutch are making them for £? yet the same make same spec is produced cheaper you don't buy the cheaper one, ok in this instance you are the one being ripped off my friend, all im saying is theres guys out there that will buy the cheaper ones, for what ever reason and lets face it is down to affordability , im with you, BUT if I find a bargain I will buy it and so will many many others but they wont say so on here, im not a recaster stuart lets get that straight, I know guys nearer to home that are casting stuff, all im saying in my point of view I think models have become way too expensive look at euro, look at sales in general, IM NOT THE ONLY ONE HERE ! BUT I HAVE THE BOLLOCKS TO STAND UP AND SAY SO, I would never rip you off, IM NOT THE RECASTER!
 
Tony

You mention hobby a lot and band us all together.

Please dont....because those that care about this hobby whether their hobby is making figures or buying them care about it. We support each other...we look after each other...we help each other. We are friends.

You are different...the opposite to all the above.

Stuart
 
One can see the different sides to this discussion,, and at the last, it comes down to personal points of view of morality. Much of which has been discussed on other PF forums recently. However it's viewed, toes will be trodden on and raw nerves touched:cool:

Alan
 
As a starter for a christmas truce this isn't going to work I'm afraid, so why rekindle the embers of what weeks ago turned in a nasty and decidedly ungentlemanly row? My only comment: in my experience quality figurines never were cheap, 44 years ago I couldn't afford a Poste Militaire or a Series 77 either, only Historex and Verlinden were in my budget range! Prices of good quality figurines are still high indeed, but so are the numerous after market kits plastic modelers feel obliged to use and as for youngsters, they happily tote their 200euro Ipods or Ipads or Iwhatnots without batting an eyelid!
 
Seems to me the sole reason for that somewhat unintelligible first post was to stir the pot and upset people. I have better things to do at this time of year than to take part in discussions clearly started as deliberate baiting.

Happy Christmas to all and fellowship within the hobby.

Colin
 
Everyone is and has the entitlement to their own opinion and to make their own decisions .

I am with Stuart on the issue raised we are a great bunch here all wanting the same thing to make and paint models and enjoy and SUPPORT our hobby .

Manufacturers have bargains that are not recasts and we can enjoy those when they happen and still support the genuine company's.

Off to hide Mrs Naps present !!

Enjoy the hobby

Nap
 
It's has to be a wind up, but he has negated the fact that what he is condoning is illegal and he is being part of it. A case of removal from PF if ever I have seen one, let him take his so called good guy and unethical antics elsewhere. Mods, he is openly supporting illegal behaviour which is theft. I would be interested to know what parts of other kits are used as my range is 100% original

I think you will also find that most figures being produced by small companies are HALF the price of the mainstream, ie £38 for a 90mm metal figure or the same for a 120mm piece, compare those to pegaso etc and you are tarring everyone with the same brush.

I recently had a 200mm black watch for £70 incl postage, it sold 3 so please do not say lower prices equate to more sales, as it was before I decided to pull the plug it hadn't even paid for the moulds and metal parts.
If you saw a breakdown of master costs and actual numbers of a piece sold I think you would be very surprised.

Recasting and supporting it is just piggybacking on the back on someone else's hard work. The reality is if you cannot afford it legitimately then it ain't for you, but I think you get a lot for your buck in this hobby. If the youngsters are serious, and I was a modeller from a very early age, they do what I did and got kits at Christmas etc or from my paper round, are you really saying £38-£40 for a 120mm newly sculpted and cast figure is expensive? It is not the manufacturers job to cater for every individual circumstance, it is our job to come up with an idea, invest in it, cast it in many cases and ensure it covers it overheads to cover a new commission, if not the loss comes out of our pocket. As said, you are tarring all with the same brush.

Putting the blame on the manufacturer, the people that brought the vision to life in the first place is both ludicrous and hypocritical, then to defend your own illegal actions expecting support (otherwise why post) is just stupid.
 
A lot of things in this life are not cheap. Premiership match about £40 for one and half hours is one example.75mm figure £40 about 10 to 20 hours painting fun,quite a bargain.But to want to buy cheaper still(recast) is theft, and downright greedy.
To say figure manufacturers show no loyalty to us not quite true(to me).Often if, say you break a piece of a kit.most of the smaller manufacturers will replace the piece free(they don't have to do this).Oh well,there is alway's one isn't there!.
All the best.
Ralph(not a rich modeller and certainly not a thief).
 
swralph said:
A lot of things in this life are not cheap. Premiership match about £40 for one and half hours is one example.75mm figure £40 about 10 to 20 hours painting fun,quite a bargain.But to want to buy cheaper still(recast) is theft, and downright greedy.
To say figure manufacturers show no loyalty to us not quite true(to me).Often if, say you break a piece of a kit.most of the smaller manufacturers will replace the piece free(they don't have to do this).Oh well,there is alway's one isn't there!.
All the best.
Ralph(not a rich modeller and certainly not a thief).
Click to expand...


All I can do is agree with this

Nap
 
Obviously meant to stir things up....

Nevertheless, one argument that always amuses me is this: figures are sooo expensive.....but I really NEED this figure for my project.....therefore it's OK if I act illegally to get it.

I saw this cool Porsche yesterday, but I cannot afford it......why would only rich people be able to drive Porsche? I'm sure it's ok if I take it from someone? I really need a car.

That's the logic of a ten-year old, but it's frequently used in the context of recasts here.

There's figures in all price ranges: plastic, resin, metal. If you find the best ones too expensive, then ask them from santa, buy less of them (You have a grey army?) or select the ones you CAN afford. Buying ripoffs is stealing, and as buyer you are part of it.

By the way, I don't think many figure producers are Porsche drivers....

Would probably have been wiser to ignore this thread, but I was bored....

Cheers,
Adrian
 
With all the discussion that I have read recently about costs and the work it takes to bring a figure to market and how unfair it is to recast, etc...all of which I agree with and found compelling to avoid buying fakes..... I really like the concise statement that sums it all up.

You are stealing. You are buying theft. End of story.

Merry Christmas, y'all! !
 
Ferris said:
Obviously meant to stir things up....

Nevertheless, one argument that always amuses me is this: figures are sooo expensive.....but I really NEED this figure for my project.....therefore it's OK if I act illegally to get it.

I saw this cool Porsche yesterday, but I cannot afford it......why would only rich people be able to drive Porsche? I'm sure it's ok if I take it from someone? I really need a car.

That's the logic of a ten-year old, but it's frequently used in the context of recasts here.

There's figures in all price ranges: plastic, resin, metal. If you find the best ones too expensive, then ask them from santa, buy less of them (You have a grey army?) or select the ones you CAN afford. Buying ripoffs is stealing, and as buyer you are part of it.

By the way, I don't think many figure producers are Porsche drivers....

Would probably have been wiser to ignore this thread, but I was bored....

Cheers,
Adrian
Click to expand...


Absolutetly spot on Adrian!!

Couldn't have said it any better.


Cheer's,
Jeff.
 
Well, I've read this entire post and I reckon some of you fellas have got things all mixed up here.

You see this is a Hobby~






And this is someone recasting~






Now I think you'll find when you've had a good look at these links that things are a lot simplier than you first thought.
 

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