This hobby is alive and well! (The way I see our hobby)

[Bailey]

I was just reading a post here that made the argument that young people are not getting into figure painting and that the hobby is dying (along with a variety of other, more controversial statements). I completely disagree with that statement. There are plenty of people in their teens, 20's, and 30's who are busy painting figures. What's changed is how they enter the hobby. A lot of the younger crowd gets into it through war games and role playing games. Warhammer (Games Workshop), Warmachine and Hordes (Privateer Press), Infinity, and Malifaux are all very popular miniature games. Now, yes, a lot of those people are more in it for the games than painting... but they could just as easily be playing video games, so there's something about the miniatures that grabs their attention. At the same time there's a somewhat smaller percentage (myself included) who started with the games and then decided they really just want to paint the figures and solely focus on that. Things are changing, the trend I see is the younger generations tend to paint more of the fantasy and sci-fi figures than the historical ones. As a result many of them tend towards sites like Cool Mini Or Not and Putty & Paint which caters more to those interests. It's not that PlanetFigure has anything against those subjects, but the people posting here tend to focus more on historical figures.

Another change I've seen is that sites like Kickstarter and Indiegogo have allowed for a lot of small lines of figures/miniature games to pop up. Here's a short list of some of the recent projects and how they've done.
Dreamforge Games - Sci-fi game raised over $200,000
Arena Rex - Alternative history/fantasy game raised over $250,000
Kingdom Death - Horror game raised over $2,000,000
Wrath of Kings - Fantasy game raised over $700,000
Journey: Wrath of Demons - Eastern mythology game raised $425,000
Infamy - Steampunk game raised over £90,000
Raging Heroes - Sci-fi figures raised almost $700,000
Creature Caster - ~150mm Demons and Dragons raised over $300,000
Black Sailors - 75mm fantasy figures (no game, just figures) raised $77,000
Figopedia - a book on painting figures raised over €30,000
Figure Art - another painting book raised over €30,000

That's not meant to be a comprehensive list, I could go on and on. But from that we can see that there's a lot more interest in fantasy and sci-fi. I'm sure there are some historical figure/game projects but nothing comes to mind. I think it also shows that the hobby is far from dead. Lots of projects raised in the hundreds of thousands with Kingdom Death raising over two million! Many of those projects are games which helps draw a wider audience. But the last three are purely figure projects with no link to any games and they still had decent interest from the public.

Most hobbies require time and money. Figures may be getting more expensive, but if you're beginning a career or a family free time can be even harder to come by. As a result I see a lot of new people posting over at Cool Mini that they used to paint as a kid, took a break for a while (late teens and their 20's) and are now getting back into the hobby.

I have noticed, and which we can possibly address, is there's a bit of a disconnect between the younger and older generations in this hobby. The younger crowd don't seem to attend figure painting groups and shows as much as the older generation. They often congregate in their local gaming stores and online, and when they do go to shows their often associated with gaming tournaments. I think the painting groups/shows could do more outreach to try to bring in the younger painters. I've seen quite a few painters on sites like Cool Mini who have no idea there are annual figure shows in their area. If your group is holding a show, drop off flyers and advertise in the local gaming stores, post announcements on forums like Cool Mini, Dakka Dakka, Bell of Lost Souls, and others. Maybe create some categories or special awards just for gaming figures (best army, best unit, best 28mm, whatever). It may not bring the younger crowds in great numbers, but it's a start.

Okay, a lot of what I said is based on my opinions and observations. I may be completely off. But, I do believe the figure painting hobby is not dying out. It's just that a different generation hasdifferent interests and they're getting their figures from other sources. At least that's the way this 34 year old sees the hobby.

 

[ChaosCossack]

Well said Bailey

"Changing" doesn't mean "dying"

Colin

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

Well written Bailey, a common sense article with a good view of the younger end of the hobby...........I must admit that figures have given me an insight and interest in History, a subject that I found as dull as ditch water at school. Hopefully others have found the same and the curiosity of the younger generation will cross over into Historical Figures as they get older.

There is no doubt that more needs to be done to include the younger generation at shows, one problem with our hobby is that it tends to be populated by introverted types who by definition are not good at self promotion. This tends to be reflected in the sales and marketing of the hobby. Low margins and a fairly saturated market in terms of new releases probably restrict marketing spend as well so does anyone have any low cost ideas? Perhaps it warrants another thread............unfortunately I just seem to be regarded as a "Troll" on here so I'll leave it to others.

Most people that I meet and discuss the hobby with just don't know that it exists.

Claude.

 

[Martin64]

Hi Bailey,
I agree in many ways to your point of view - especially because I have a "living proof" for your statements which is my son. Although I always offered him kits from my stash he preferred to get into warhammer and now malifaux, dreamforge and warmachine. When it comes to my preferred brands of miniatures he is usually interested in the scifi-themes.
On a sidenote: In the scifi-branch of the hobby there is a problem with recasts and copies as well - so the perfect world will not happen and I don`t see reasons for verbally killing each other for it.

While available timeframes for hobbies might have changed likewise I still see an increase of prices as another reason why people like me now look more and more at their stash when there is time to build and paint something and others might not get into the hobby at all.
Referring to another thread I can tell that in the "golden age" of our hobby the outstanding producer Pegaso (one of my favorites) constantly raised prices until you could calculate one German Mark per milimeter of a sculpt. Today their price is about 1,50€ to 2,00€ per milimeter which would make about 3 to 4 German Mark - and I don`t speak about limited runs.
So already back in the golden age I was wondering with some friends - who always spent their entire extra money for figures - how long this could go on / the market would accept these prices. Obviously we have reached a point when even hardcore figure-lovers consider if they really need that very nice new release and casual customers just walk away shaking their heads when looking at the price and maybe turn towards prepainted and built models that are offered from companies like Black Hawk etc. at a similar price.

About raising the public awareness for Model Shows I might add that I am a member of a local Model Club and that we organize one annual show which is advertised with flyers etc. Still we see a continous slight decrease of visitors and exhibitors - especially in the younger classes where scifi-models have become of course a part of the contest.
The internet had in my eyes another impact on this change. Today I am able via internet to take a look at new releases and the work of fellow hobbyists on a daily basis - I don`t need to visit a show - therefore shows seem to turn more into social events. Increased costs for travel and accomodation might be another factor. Even tips from other hobbyists and SBS-threads are free and available any time I run into a problem (so no more need for an extensive library, which I own anyway because I am old) - great isn`t it?

The option to advertise and sell models via internet as a second income beside the regular job (bypassing the regular distribution line of times past) was btw IMHO a significant factor in the demise of many Local Hobby shops. Business and friendship usually don´t fit like a glove...just in that perfect world that might come one fine day things will be different of course .

Personally I don`t see the hobby "dying" but adapting. Maybe I should mention that everything said is just a personal opinion and might not be agreed upon.

All the best!
Martin

 

[Blind Pew]

Most people that I meet and discuss the hobby with just don't know that it exists.

Claude.

Exactly. COuldn't have put it better myself.

 

[brian]

Totally agree.
Brian

 

[Tubby-Nuts2]

I suppose any form of modelling, figures or otherwise can only be a good thing!

The irony being is that I was once also a 'Pimply-Faced', long haired, Herbert! on benefits! ..Things do change!

My hair is shorter! for a start.

Regards,

Mark.

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

Hell Mark-I used to think I was a cynic until I saw your posts on PF.............at least I'm learning not to take them toooooooo seriously

Claude

 

[Bailey]

The gaming figures have many of the same problems as the historical display figures. Games Workshop keeps raising prices. You can spend over $20-30 for a single plastic 28mm figure. Larger kits can be $70, $90, or well over $100. At those prices I'll stick with Pegaso! And if you search Games Workshop or Forgeworld (a branch of GW that does higher quality resin figures) on Ebay you'll find all sorts of recasters.

In terms of why the younger crowd is more drawn to sci-fi and fantasy... well, one reason could be the tv shows and movies we grew up watching. My dad grew up watching westerns, world war II movies, stuff like that. I grew up watching star wars, transformers, he-man, etc. I'm not saying that is THE reason, but it could be a contributing factor.

I like the sci-fi and fantasy figures, but I also thoroughly enjoy the historical subjects. As you said, Claude, it's neat to learn about the different subjects I work on. I'm fairly active on Cool Mini as well, so I try to bring this side of the hobby (historical figures, shows, stuff larger than 28mm) to their attention. I will get the occasional comment like 'I really need to try a historical figure' from time to time. They don't always follow through, but some do. Right now we're doing a paint-along project with 10+ people. It's a fantasy figure, but at least it's a 54mm one. I'm hopeful that a number of them will take to that larger scale and maybe try a historical 54mm figure next.

 

[Ray Stout]

One of the biggest problems, in the development of most of the"traditional"hobbies to the young is cost. The demise of the Airfix Multipose figure, which were cheap enough to chop, and convert, gave life to the creative side for most people who just didn't have the talent to scratch build. Plus, the lack of competition classes for this, along with the much greater choice of kits available, has all but reduced the hobby to JUST painting skills. Ray

 

[Gra30]

Having modelled since i was young, about 5 and now 42, I don't think cost has any relevance and I do think it is still a very active hobby amongst youngsters, especially within fantasy as Bailey has mentioned. To be honest a youngster has never had it so good compared to when most of us started. There was no internet which now has access to the world of modelling and the modellers for tips and advice. We relied solely on one monthly magazine, possibly one major show, the engineering exhibition, and no real contact with modellers outside our own area and that if lucky. Today a youngster can find everything on the net. As for price, again it is of little relevance. Our hobby is still one of the cheapest if you consider what you get and the time that can be put into a project for a reasonable cost. If you look at the average pocket money today and the cost of a video game, which a youngster would not think twice of buying, compare that to a 54mm high resin figure at approx £15 or a plastic kit which from companies like trumpeter can be around £25. Hobbyboss does a 1/16 tiger for £49 less than some video games. Don't also forget the access to ebay and forums where kits can be grabbed even cheaper.
I think we convince ourselves that people model constantly from an early age or we lose them, we don't. They start work, have families and then return later on life but the seed has and was still sown at an early age. Competitions nearly always include junior classes and again seem far better catered for than years ago.
A youngster doesn't stay a youngster forever and aslong as there is a steady stream of adults entering the hobby the hobby will thrive. Yes support those early years to initiate the interest, look at some of the finest modellers out there and you will see active modellers from their 20s onwards successfully promoting the hobby.

 

[Mark S]

The take up of figure painting as a hobby for younger people is an interesting thing to consider. It seems to me to be difficult to accurately determine the numbers of younger people picking up brushes.
Intuitively, one would think that with the many forums that now exist on the hobby, and with so much information so easily accessed these days, that there would be more new starters than there were in the past when online access to an entire world of figure modelling and an international fellowship of hobbyists didn't exist.

BUT, it would seem there are other factors, if we are to believe that younger people aren't taking up the brushes as much as some would like, that determine those numbers.
I think possibly price is a factor, but I think we've all heard the same story repeated here many, many times over, and that goes something like ~ I started modelling when I was younger and lost interest once I looked up and noticed that sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll was a hell of a lot more fun....then when time pasted and the old fella stopped watching me shave every morning and watched me tie my shoes instead I took up the hobby again.
I'm sure this story will go on being repeated forever which will see the majority of figure modellers being older people who have returned to modelling hobbies.

I think you may be right David, when you say popular culture has an influence on modellers preference for fantasy themed figures or historically based figures.....I have another thought as well on that matter, I believe the way history has been taught in schools, and portrayed in popular culture, for along time doesn't foster any interest in the subject at all. I reckon so much of REAL history is considerably more fantastic than anything that can be imagined in the fantasy genre.

 

[Ray Stout]

I've been in this hobby since1973 and I still think that there is a place for what were known as converters, my point was that it's getting too expensive to start chopping and changing figures,just to try out an idea. e,g, I once bought the Hinchcliffe Gothic Knight, and the Almond Sculpture's Knight, and seporated them at the waist, and swapped them over ,so the mounted figure had a face to paint. Imagine the cost of trying that out to-day with 2 90mm figs , one mounted and one foot figure!! When I did this , it was no more than £43,00. I feel we need to bring back the "modelling" aspect of the hobby more than just painting, and the only way we can do this , is to encourage more people to try it by promoting it in competitions. The last time I entered anything at Euromilitaire, I asked the judge if there was a class for conversions. "Is it as per box"he asked,"No" I said, and I was directed to the Scratchbuilt class, together with the professional sculptures. There's no "halfway house" now, and I feel that we should be encourageing talent by recognising this, but this can be prohibitive due to the high costs. I just want to find a way . I started with toy soldiers, so maybe we can get the youngsters started on Del Prado figs, you can pick them up now for £2-3s Ray

 

[ChaosCossack]

Most of us started as 8 to 12 year olds, dabbled for a couple of years and found other distractions at 14-15... school, girls, sports, partying... then starting lives with more school, work, families etc. Pretty common story. Why do we expect it to be any different now?

This hobby is definitely one of patience, concentration, TIME and MONEY... definitely the characteristics of a settled, established adult. Not to say teens can't do it, but how many teens do you know that are patient, focused, have time or disposable income? They may be out there but certainly not in large numbers. I know that from the ages of 16 to 25, you couldn't get me to sit still for more than 5 minutes at a time, nevermind sitting at the bench for hours. Between hockey, my band, school, apprenticeship, chasing skirt and getting in way too much trouble at the bars... no time to paint!

As far as the costs... I have two main hobbies and one minor hobby... Modelling is hands down the cheapest!!! Tools and materials for leatherwork (my minor hobby) are very expensive. My other passion, that I've been involved with since I was 18, is building custom Harleys... now that's frigging crazy expensive. You don't often leave the bike shop without dropping at least $500... a cheapish build is gonna come in starting at $8000 but a reasonable, average cost is around $12000. So putting it in perspective, modelling is pretty cheap when you look at it from a "$ spent/time spent" point of view.... collecting a massive grey army doesn't count. Buying and storing thousands of figs that you'll never paint is an expensive diversion... if you don't have that kinda dough (like me) you can keep this hobby fairly cheap by only buying figs you are going to paint.

As Bailey mentioned, there are probably more kids painting (for whatever end) than there was when we started. I don't see a need to panic. They will come back just like we did. The subjuct matter may change but as long as the paint is flowing who cares? I'm sure the cycle will continue just as it did with all of us and the painters before us and the painters after the the next generation of painters.

The best we can do is put forward the face of what our hobby can be and what great people are already involved in the hobby... examples of both these things will encourage those who might be interested to join in... when they are at a point in their life when they can get the best out of this hobby.

No need to get our panties in a bunch, there's been modelling for 1000's of years, I sure it will continue well beyond any of us on this forum today

My two cents worth of sweet F All

Colin

 

[Martin64]

Briefly - because I feel somewhat guilty for turning the thread more towards monetary aspects - I just want to add that for a person new to the hobby there are still models around at an affordable price. Many plastic figures and resin lines provide excellent quality and are suited to all kind of conversions.

But when companies like Pegaso note by themselves that their sales are decreasing since the end of the nineties it is for sure not because of bad quality of new releases but for a big change of the price level Pegaso has influenced by themselves since then .
Anyhow most of their customers are not beginners but hardcore addicts to the hobby I assume. For sales it`s not so much about the guy that want`s to paint and build that one figure but about customers that regularly buy your new releases. If sales are constantly going dowm price level can be one of the reasons.

The same happens to Games Workshop btw and I agree to Bailey that their price level is beyond a Pegaso kit taking into account that they produce injection moulded plastic kits using a repeating system of legs, torso`s etc.

BUT the prices are no reason for concern that the hobby is dying - it`s just something salesmen should be aware of if they are worried about sales.
Cheers, Martin

 

[Gra30]

The euro class is scratch built AND conversion. I really still think this hobby can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it as Colin mentions.
Look at the wealth of dragon 1/35 figures that easily replace multi pose and the resin figures are in abundance of all eras making conversions far easier to do than years ago.
I googled the Xbox destiny game, one of the latest, £36, I am pretty sure this is in the possession of many youngsters and they spend many hours on it, that's the time but covered. I really don't see it as a money issue, maybe creativity is what has been lost, if anything has.
I do have some Pegaso, but I am selective and they are a luxury, other pieces in all scales can be bought so at entry level any budget really can be catered for.

 

[Mark S]

The problem for youngsters these days is not just the cost of an X-box game, but also the latest fashion emblazoned with an expensive brand name, just the right haircut from a five star hairdresser, brand name sun glasses, and have you seen the cost of E these days.....after smokes,gambling, alcohol, pot, and a couple of tabs there's very little change left over for figure modelling.

 

[Mark S]

Just for the sake of shoving young people into even more ill fitting pigeon holes and stereo types cos it's fun, here's an example of the model kits most of these youngsters are busy putting together these days~

 

[Tubby-Nuts2]

Ah, but Mark S.

Were we any different in our 'Teens and early Twenty's' . I wasn't. ..My Father influenced me, from an early age with paints and creative things, then models so on and so forth.

Now if there was a modeller of any description in the family, that gives the young-un's an insight .. and a possible influence for the future.

As an example, a good few years ago. My nephew would pop around just when I was doing 'AFV' stuff and would say things like, dad Marks doing another one etc!

He is now an 'Investment Banker', and has apparently just done a 1/48TH Aircraft.

On the flip side, my God-son, has had no influence or visual, and is as you say, he is wrapped up in his X-Box! Not one iota of interest at all.

Oh well! Can't win them all.

Mark

 

[Blue Thunder]

Figurine modelling & painting is one of the ancient hobbies of mankind! Be it small or large:

So happy people rest tranquil! From 5000 years from now, "The Last Stand at Gandamak" will be praised just like we praise today the bust above: Nefertiti, which means "the most beautiful one arrived"