What do you think about...

[Steve]

Greetings, Planet denizens. The HMSNEO (Tulsa club) is considering sponsoring a painting workshop in Tulsa featuring PF member and other-worldly great painter JASON GREEN. The purpose of this post is to get some idea of how popular this idea might be. We have two possible dates in mind. One is the Thursday and Friday immediately before the Tulsa show 2012. If we go with this one, participants in the workshop would receive entrance to the show included in the fee. The other date is over the Labor Day weekend 2012. Cost will run between 175.00 per seat and 225.00 per seat, and has yet to be determined. Of course the workshop will run generally along the lines of that which Gordy and the Planet pioneered Labor Day past with Fernando Ruiz. We plan on sixteen hours of instruction over two days with a maximum of twenty seats. We are looking at holding the workshop in the back room of the Hussar in Tulsa. The Hussar recently celebrated it's 30th anniversary and this unique and comfortable venue would provide an appropriate site oozing "figure" for this workshop! So, if you could weigh in with thoughts on timing and participation, we can move this from idea to execution (or toss it into the trash can). THANK YOU ALL.--

 

[Joe Hudson]

Hey Steve,

I think that it would be a good idea but I think the cost is a bit high. Not taking anything away from Jason but the reason for the cost at Gordy's was due to the air fare from Spain, venue room and hotel accommodations. I hope that it can take place and think it would be well attended. I k ow if it is not on Labor Day I will do my best to make it there.

Joe

 

[Steve]

Thanks Joe. The cost is still in flux. My personal take is that the fee is for the instruction from a world-class painter and not the cost of putting on the workshop. But that is just me.

 

[Joe Hudson]

Thanks Joe. The cost is still in flux. My personal take is that the fee is for the instruction from a world-class painter and not the cost of putting on the workshop. But that is just me.

Hey Steve,


It has nothing to due with paying for Jason's talent. I think he is one of the BEST! I sent you returned PM, hope that it clears it up.

 

[Steve]

Nothing to clear up Amigo. I posted this to get feedback and you have done that. Thanks very much.

 

[Steve]

I overlooked stating what the money that the workshop would bring in would go for. It will help fund the Tulsa Show. After looking out for Jason's comfort every penny will be dedicated to the show.--

 

[combatartist]

Unless there are as many extras included as Gordy had, the price is too high, especially for only 2 days. Tulsa is an expensive flight from Chicago ($320-$412), then factor lodging @ $55 - $110) meals, etc. for just a painting demo? Might consider getting sponsors to have a figure, paints or more. Just my 2¢ worth.

 

[Steve]

Thanks Tony! Of course the figure, base, and paint will be provided. This is not a demo; it is hands on instruction with one of the best painters on earth. I cannot afford to paint Pegaso mounted figures because they are too high so I just do not do it. Above all that figure is not set in stone, and it will change if necessary. But I see where the APG is charging 150.00 a seat for Doug Cohen's workshop at the next APG show and that is a one day deal. Thanks for the 2 cents pal!

 

[Jim Patrick]

Steve, I am 100% behind this idea and it is absoutely fantastic to see so many other clubs, organazations and individuals continuing this "workshop" theme.

Before I (or anyone else) weigh in with my opinion, I guess a few questions need to be answered. Some of these (not all inclusive) are:

1- What is the reasoning behind the cost. Most will not have a problem with higher costs as long as they know where the proceeds are going.

2- What is included with the costs of the seminar? What will the figure be and in what scale?

3- The biggest draw back for us here in N. America is the distance from one another and the costs to travel those distances. This must be considered. Not to mention their jobs and the related time off.

4- There are several shows planning to conduct "workshops" in conjunction with their shows now. One cannot simply attend the "show circuit" as planned AND attend these workshops as well. Finding a way to keep the costs at a minimal will go a long way towards bringing in people to the workshop.

5- What will be the focus on the workshop? I think it's unreasonable to expect to finish a figure, any figure, in just 16 hours.

6- The workshop MUST!!!! include the pizza joint (forgot the name) next door! :lol:

These are just a few things that popped into my mind. Regardless, I think it's a fantastic idea and including Jason Green is a HUGE bonus.

Jim Patrick

 

[Steve]

Thanks Jim. The costs will go to fund the Tulsa Show. The figure will be provided along with a base and paint. We are talking to Mark at Thunderbird about using his 1/10 bust of young Winston Churchill in the dress uniform of the 4th Hussars. Like everything in life, not everyone will be able to participate. I personally cannot afford it. The cost however is very much in limbo pending the feedback we get. After less than twelve hours after I posted the notice we have three participants in principle. You have helped tremendously as have Tony and Joe and the folks over on Timelines who have taken the time to respond. The figure community will drive a bunch of the train on this. If you think up anything else pertinent, please do not hesitate to post it. The more brutally honest thoughts we hear the easier it is to plan. Thanks again!

 

[Wigdog]

Steve, I'd very much like to participate in the class especially if it were held in conjunction with the Tulsa show. I've attended one of Jason's one-hour seminars in the past and he is unbelieveably talented! He's one of a handful of artists that I'd jump to be in a classroom with! I know I can't improve my painting skills by osmosis - but I'm sure willing to try! :lol:

 

[Jim Patrick]

I was a bit relunctant to post this originally but....here goes.

I'm of the oponion that the choice of the figure should be driven by the focus of the workshop (point #5 in my post). I also feel that a bust may not be the best choice. The larger scale will demand more attention to detail. I'm sure Jason can paint the bust within the slotted timeline, but can 15 to 20 other painters do this? All while learning Jason's techniques? I'm not sure...

Maybe a 75mm figure would be a better choice? Rather than having a goal of finishing a figure in 16 hours, the goal could be to finish the flesh and move on to some different colors with the painter taking the responsibility of doing his/her "homework" at home (much like the pF workshop).

Another thought could be to have the attendees bring their figure with them. Already cleaned and primed thus eleminating the need for hours of clean up. Much like the New Jersey workshop. The choice of the figure would be up to the painter. Possibly this will not work due to the time constraints?

I would like to throw my hat in as someone that would like to attend but with a pending retirement looming in my future, it's just too hard to give a 100% answer. But yes, include me in your count for people who are willing to attend.

Jim Patrick

 

[Wigdog]

Jim,

Having attended several workshops, including the recent one in St. Louis, I can attest to the fact that having a figure primed and ready to go would be a great advantage to the class and instructional time. I have never gotten as much done on the figures in the workshop that I would have liked, but I did begin to understand the process. Removing wasted time, certainly would promote more painting. As far as "homework" goes, I think it very important for feedback and instruction given to participants when a figure or objective is not finished in the workshop - so far this has been lacking in the workshops I have attended.

I do disagree with you on one point. I think it imperative that everyone in the class be working on the same figure. It is through the comparison of what you are doing with that of the intstuctor, and of fellow participants, that you have a better chance to understand the methods of the instructor. I'm a visual learner, and if everybody was working on something different, it would just be a painting party to me, and the opportunity for greater learning would be missed (in my humble opinion).

In the recent PF workshop, we had two completed versions of the miniature, one in process that was the teaching tool, a powerpoint showing how the completed miniature was done while we were working on the area of instruction, and we had each other in the room to discuss what we were doing. This was a great teaching and learning format! So at any point, you could compare what you were doing to a completed figure, one in progress by the instructor, procedures in the powerpoint, and your neighbor's figures! Way cool!

 

[Glen]

I concur with Jim Patrick's comments. I think a 75mm full figure is the way to go. If you want to with a Thunderbird Miniatures piece (which I fully support), then perhaps his 75mm Confederate Infantryman would be the way to go. It presents the opportunity to paint felt, cloth, leather, wood, metal, and fleshtones. It's a one-stop lesson. Truth be told, no matter what figure is picked, someone isn't going to like it.

A common figure is desirable, but shouldn't be mandatory - especially if you have a gray army that rivals the Confederacy and your significant other is giving you the stink eye about acquiring another figure. Jus' sayin'.

Having the figure cleaned up, assembled, and primed is an excellent idea. The emphasis will be on painting. And speaking of painting, it has not been specifically mentioned, but is the seminar designed around the use of oils, acrylics, or both?

Considering the current economy, I do think the cost should be capped at the $200.00 mark. Nevertheless, even that may be beyond the reach of some. I don't think anyone has an issue with HMSNEO getting a cut to support the Tulsa Show. I mean, free beer... what's not to like?

In light of the above, I think that having the seminar in conjunction with the Tulsa Show in June is more cost effective. There is one trip there and one trip back instead of two. Car rental (if used) and fuel costs would be halved. Flight costs would also be halved - or more than halved if flight costs are higher around the Labor Day holiday. If held in conjunction with the Tulsa Show, it would be helpful if seminar attendees could get the Show's Radisson rate for the night before the seminar through the Sunday after. Alternatively, it would be helpful if attendees could be pointed to a reasonably decent hotel/motel in the vicinity of the Hussar - preferably one that doesn't charge by the hour...

Questions and comments are welcomed.

Count me in as a possible. I'll start saving now.

Slainte,

Glen

 

[Jim Patrick]

Good points Glenn

IF a 75mm figure is chosen, why not this figure as well?

http://shop.shopthunderbird.com/product.sc?productId=15&categoryId=5

This would add the dredded (by some) color red. Another great sculpt by Anders.

I too fully support getting the figure from Thunderbirds Miniatures as they are one of the few company's out there keeping the costs of their figures down.

The reason why I am in favor of a 75mm is because I feel this is the perfect scale to conduct a workshop on. Not too large and not too small. It snuggles nicely in the center.

I read on Timelines where an old friend of mine, Paul Marshall, wants the figure to be 54mm as he doesn't paint anything larger. That's a perfectly reasonable idea as this is HIS prefered scale. Using a 75 mm figure easily allows a painter to transition to a larger figure, or bust and it also allows an easy transition to a 54mm figure.

Regardless, as Glenn said, there will be someone unhappy with the figure regardless what you choose and what scale.

I guess the "powers that be" need to sit back and make some hard decisions now. Keep us posted and let us know what the decisions are

Jim Patrick

EDIT- Yes, I realize the figure has a tartan pattern but the tartan doesn't have to be completed at the workshop. Just an introduction and paint a small portion of it. The rest could be finished after the painter takes the figure home.

 

[Glen]

Ok, so far this evening has really sucked. Just finished watching the Rangers get blown out by the Cardinals. Pitching, defense, and timely hitting all went south. Then, there was the blown call by the first base umpire. Still, there's always another game...

Jim, I did look at the Highlander, but I thought the red jacket and mitre cap with the small(ish) white details, combined with the tartan kilt, might be off-putting to some.

TM's Confederate Infantryman is good due to it's simplicity; as painted a gray jacket and brown hat, pants, and bedroll. All three of the latter could have their colors altered to blues, tans, greens, or greys. Painters could work on flesh tones, brush control, shading, and highlighting, then have the option of adding a simple pattern or stripes to the pants, shirt, and/or bedroll. The point is, the painter has the latter as an option and the figure can be considered finished without exercising it. This is not the case with the Highlander - you are locked into a specific set of colors in certain areas of the figure. The figure isn't finished until all of the fiddly bits and the tartan are completed.

That said, I think the seminar is the perfect place to complete the tartan pattern - start to finish. Where better than under the watchful and correcting eye of Jason? Combine that with the group dynamic and you have a very powerful training aid and motivator.

I understand where your friend Paul is coming from. 54mm is also my scale/size of choice. 54mm medieval foot to be specific. If it's got mail and a battle-axe, I'm there! OTOH, if you want to work on skin tones, there's always the scantily-clad warrior babe. Boobs, butts, and battle-axes. They're a beautiful thing...

Cheers,

Glen

 

[Jim Patrick]

OTOH, if you want to work on skin tones, there's always the scantily-clad warrior babe. Boobs, butts, and battle-axes. They're a beautiful thing...

Hmmmmmmmm. I like your way of thinking. But we would have to have some "reference material" readily available. Books just wouldn't suffice, we would have to have a "reenactor" come to the workshop.....

Jim Patrick

 

[Steve]

Thanks a bunch to all. I hope we can customize this experience for the attendees. There is nada set in stone and every comment will be considered. We appreciate those who take the time to post their thoughts!

 

[Wigdog]

Thanks Steve for your efforts to make this a reality,

One last thought on the matter, I think that the instructor is the one that should decide on what he/she is willing to give the instructions on, and the medium - if he/she is not interested in the subject or size of the figure - it is likely they wouldn't enjoy it as much and thus instruction may well suffer. Again, this is about the process, and be it bust, 75 mm figure, larger or smaller, and Jason is willing to do it - that's what you should shoot for. You will NEVER EVER get participants to agree on what to choose to be painted - so don't even try! LOL Offer what Jason wants to do - and they will fill the class in my opinion. I also have my own preferences, but this is about learning and as a student, I have to be able to apply it to what I want to paint.

Dave (30+ year educator)

 

[Steve]

The Young Winston bust was Jason's suggestion.