MAB
A Fixture
Compliments Babis
Beautiful sculpture and good details one of your best ones.
Χαιρετισμοί MAB
Beautiful sculpture and good details one of your best ones.
Χαιρετισμοί MAB
BYZANTINE EMPEROR scrutch 60mm
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Dionisos_bakxos
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2007
- Messages
- 43
Well done Babis!!!!Excellent work!!!I cant wait to buy it!!!
Basilis
Basilis
Dan Morton
A Fixture
Superb!
All the best,
Dan
All the best,
Dan
Dear Costas and Babis,
I appreciate your point of view of course, which unfortunately lacks a lot on logical points I´m afraid.
I agree I got no fotos of an Byzantine Emperor, but no one has. So that makes Mr. Giannopoulos the same ignorant as me, cause I don´t think he has a foto either!! And the magazine mentioned as a source is far from accepted as an archeological one and everybody in Greece knows well the political background of the Periscopio Publications. I give my best to be a historical modeller, not that I don´t like Fantasy figures too. But this figure is either historical correct or it´s fantasy. Tell me that is fantasy and I accept everything. But since you say it´s an Emperor and post it to comment, I comment.
If we accept that no one has a foto of an Emperor or Templar and that way everything is allowed, then why paint the Templar white cloaked? Why not red with blue stripes? If only a foto would be an evidence then all we know about history is crap!!??!! Then how and why you mention Leonidas? How do you know about him? Got a video of the battle? Give me a break!
I can´t imagine that an Emperor was going to battle actually to kill enemies himself and run through the battlefield with a shield and sword to scare people. But even if he did, what distinguished him from other high ranked officers if not the Crone??!! Or do you think that everybody knew him personally?
If modelling is ever to be a form of art we should see some abstract modeling first. And lastly, my work (as bad it is) has nothing to do with the work of Babis, which is the point of discussion here. Try to accept critics for a change.
Best Regards Anastasios.
P.S. It´s really rude to write in Greek at an English Forum!
I appreciate your point of view of course, which unfortunately lacks a lot on logical points I´m afraid.
I agree I got no fotos of an Byzantine Emperor, but no one has. So that makes Mr. Giannopoulos the same ignorant as me, cause I don´t think he has a foto either!! And the magazine mentioned as a source is far from accepted as an archeological one and everybody in Greece knows well the political background of the Periscopio Publications. I give my best to be a historical modeller, not that I don´t like Fantasy figures too. But this figure is either historical correct or it´s fantasy. Tell me that is fantasy and I accept everything. But since you say it´s an Emperor and post it to comment, I comment.
If we accept that no one has a foto of an Emperor or Templar and that way everything is allowed, then why paint the Templar white cloaked? Why not red with blue stripes? If only a foto would be an evidence then all we know about history is crap!!??!! Then how and why you mention Leonidas? How do you know about him? Got a video of the battle? Give me a break!
I can´t imagine that an Emperor was going to battle actually to kill enemies himself and run through the battlefield with a shield and sword to scare people. But even if he did, what distinguished him from other high ranked officers if not the Crone??!! Or do you think that everybody knew him personally?
If modelling is ever to be a form of art we should see some abstract modeling first. And lastly, my work (as bad it is) has nothing to do with the work of Babis, which is the point of discussion here. Try to accept critics for a change.
Best Regards Anastasios.
P.S. It´s really rude to write in Greek at an English Forum!
Dionisos_bakxos
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2007
- Messages
- 43
Anastasie....I am archeolologist and I would like to tell you some things.The Emperor of Bambis has been made as a Byzantine Emperor.
In archeology the most things are balanced.Every excavetion brings new clues about ancient people and sometimes from a new discover(fοr example a sign)may change history.
But every age has standars.In clothing,colors,armors,costoms,religion.We have informations about that from ancients books or from art.In the byzantine age many emperors took place in battles as Iraklitos.And we have many descriptions from byzantine books(and not only) and from art how the people,soldiers a Emperor looks like.Nothing is for sure of curse.But in 90% we know how they were.
About Leonidas take a look in Irodotos at his seventh book(polimnia)and you will see how he describe the battle of thermopyle.
friendly Basilis
p.s sorry for my english
In archeology the most things are balanced.Every excavetion brings new clues about ancient people and sometimes from a new discover(fοr example a sign)may change history.
But every age has standars.In clothing,colors,armors,costoms,religion.We have informations about that from ancients books or from art.In the byzantine age many emperors took place in battles as Iraklitos.And we have many descriptions from byzantine books(and not only) and from art how the people,soldiers a Emperor looks like.Nothing is for sure of curse.But in 90% we know how they were.
About Leonidas take a look in Irodotos at his seventh book(polimnia)and you will see how he describe the battle of thermopyle.
friendly Basilis
p.s sorry for my english
Akritis
Well-Known Member
Dear friends modellers give peace a chance
So it seems that we have a greek civil war about historical authenticity in this forum. The figure is very good and this is the only important think.
Anything that has to do with accuracy is second. It will be nice to see this sculpt as a commercial figure in the future. Accuracy is second because we have artificial work here and not historical research. If the sculptor wants
to make an Emperor it is because this image represents his personal feelings about the creation.
It is not rude to write in Greek because "Δεν είχα όρεξη που λές να μάθουν όλες οι φυλές..."and this is correct sometimes.
Lets have a look at the detail now. The helmet is correct (but not emperor helmet), and it was a common type(spagenhelm) inside roman world. The decorations are very beautiful.
The cuirass is very nice, correct. Muscle armour according to the sources were used. A very nice example is in a fresco of Kosmosotiras monastery(Feres, Evros 11th ce.), and in many other illustrated sources during 7th - 15th century .The artists of Byzantium were very accurate when they were drawing, and this is something that you can check using many archaeological evidence. Anyway you think that artists of those centuries were so stupid that they were painting the sword, the shield, the shoes the cloths any small detail even the decorations on the arms correct and were drawing the armour incorrect. Why?.
Many metal peaces details and decorations that is found in excavations ( mostly in Balkans Italy Anatolia) most of the time are the same as in the frescos.
The illustrations of the old artists specially those until 15th century are portrait of special personalities and 100% accurate. The accuracy is something you can check using the archaeological evidences, and the many description of the Byzantine literature. (“Peri Basiliou taxeos-John Porfirogenitos”etc. and many other Sources) were I found that the work of the artists are correct most of the time.
The excellent sculpted figure of the forum is very nice and correct historicaly. But the question is : Does it represent a Roman Emperor? And if yes which century.
This is something questionable because Roman Emperors(the will of god on earth) were the most important persons of their time. Therefore the most of the illustrations of that period are based on real motives, every commoner of the Empire had an image of the emperor in his mine and on his coins of cource. And all the writers wrote about them. The armor of every Roman Emperor is illustrated some were, you just have to make a small research every time. So it seems that we have all the details we need to create every emperor(well not all of them but perhaps the most of them ). Anyway when we want to reconstruct a personality of the past we have to think like an old person not like a modern one. We have to believe the old artist and writers and not the imagination of a modern one. So silk cloths were not for (gay persons) then,as it was mentioned by Costas. The Romans, Byzantines if you like, were always trying to impress the enemy with their wealth and prestige ( it was their main weapon against their enemies, except Persians that were equally civilzed), using their fine decorated amours and the expensive purple (possible guy color for some persons)silk cloths that was worn only by important persons those years. When the Roman Emperor was going to battle he was not a simple general but the leader of the army of Jesus Christ and His representation on .earth. There are many portraits of emperors that surviving until now like Basilios B for example or Nikiforos Fokas in Kapadokia , or Heraklios in many detailed sources (there is a very good work about Heraklios in Rafele D’ Amato osprey book Roman Military clothing 3). So how do you want us to believe that you represent an emperor, the book you used as main source about Byzantine – Persian War use sources that are questionable (for example we see on the cover a black bearded Heraclios and every source mention his blond hair for exaple) , and the same is about an other book about Byzantine Army of the same Publications. If I say iam an expert on Byzantines clothing and armour it is something that I can not prove. There is not any university section about it ( personally I don’t believe in “experts”). The publicity of the work of one person is not a representation of the authenticity of his research but the mention of the source. I have asked persons (Phd) that have spent to much time, to much money, and a great deal of their life on research about Byzantine –Roman world and their opinion about the color plates of those books is that they are very nice fantasy work not far but not very close to the reality. Many specific details are sometimes correct but the most of the part is fantasy one person with some experience on Byzantine icons and miniatures can understand it easily. (anyway no one source is mentioned about the figures in this books). The historical text is good. It is a petty because if that incorrect book can cause such misunderstandings among modellers what can we say about the majority of the people..
However the Figure is very good and if dear Babis (I hope so)you give it to a company I will take it for sure. Perhaps with some additional details I will Make a member of Komninos (Manouel Komninos not LAkis Komninos Family or a General or I do not Know what else. You extent my imagination. Hope to see it soon.
Keep up good work.
So it seems that we have a greek civil war about historical authenticity in this forum. The figure is very good and this is the only important think.
Anything that has to do with accuracy is second. It will be nice to see this sculpt as a commercial figure in the future. Accuracy is second because we have artificial work here and not historical research. If the sculptor wants
to make an Emperor it is because this image represents his personal feelings about the creation.
It is not rude to write in Greek because "Δεν είχα όρεξη που λές να μάθουν όλες οι φυλές..."and this is correct sometimes.
Lets have a look at the detail now. The helmet is correct (but not emperor helmet), and it was a common type(spagenhelm) inside roman world. The decorations are very beautiful.
The cuirass is very nice, correct. Muscle armour according to the sources were used. A very nice example is in a fresco of Kosmosotiras monastery(Feres, Evros 11th ce.), and in many other illustrated sources during 7th - 15th century .The artists of Byzantium were very accurate when they were drawing, and this is something that you can check using many archaeological evidence. Anyway you think that artists of those centuries were so stupid that they were painting the sword, the shield, the shoes the cloths any small detail even the decorations on the arms correct and were drawing the armour incorrect. Why?.
Many metal peaces details and decorations that is found in excavations ( mostly in Balkans Italy Anatolia) most of the time are the same as in the frescos.
The illustrations of the old artists specially those until 15th century are portrait of special personalities and 100% accurate. The accuracy is something you can check using the archaeological evidences, and the many description of the Byzantine literature. (“Peri Basiliou taxeos-John Porfirogenitos”etc. and many other Sources) were I found that the work of the artists are correct most of the time.
The excellent sculpted figure of the forum is very nice and correct historicaly. But the question is : Does it represent a Roman Emperor? And if yes which century.
This is something questionable because Roman Emperors(the will of god on earth) were the most important persons of their time. Therefore the most of the illustrations of that period are based on real motives, every commoner of the Empire had an image of the emperor in his mine and on his coins of cource. And all the writers wrote about them. The armor of every Roman Emperor is illustrated some were, you just have to make a small research every time. So it seems that we have all the details we need to create every emperor(well not all of them but perhaps the most of them ). Anyway when we want to reconstruct a personality of the past we have to think like an old person not like a modern one. We have to believe the old artist and writers and not the imagination of a modern one. So silk cloths were not for (gay persons) then,as it was mentioned by Costas. The Romans, Byzantines if you like, were always trying to impress the enemy with their wealth and prestige ( it was their main weapon against their enemies, except Persians that were equally civilzed), using their fine decorated amours and the expensive purple (possible guy color for some persons)silk cloths that was worn only by important persons those years. When the Roman Emperor was going to battle he was not a simple general but the leader of the army of Jesus Christ and His representation on .earth. There are many portraits of emperors that surviving until now like Basilios B for example or Nikiforos Fokas in Kapadokia , or Heraklios in many detailed sources (there is a very good work about Heraklios in Rafele D’ Amato osprey book Roman Military clothing 3). So how do you want us to believe that you represent an emperor, the book you used as main source about Byzantine – Persian War use sources that are questionable (for example we see on the cover a black bearded Heraclios and every source mention his blond hair for exaple) , and the same is about an other book about Byzantine Army of the same Publications. If I say iam an expert on Byzantines clothing and armour it is something that I can not prove. There is not any university section about it ( personally I don’t believe in “experts”). The publicity of the work of one person is not a representation of the authenticity of his research but the mention of the source. I have asked persons (Phd) that have spent to much time, to much money, and a great deal of their life on research about Byzantine –Roman world and their opinion about the color plates of those books is that they are very nice fantasy work not far but not very close to the reality. Many specific details are sometimes correct but the most of the part is fantasy one person with some experience on Byzantine icons and miniatures can understand it easily. (anyway no one source is mentioned about the figures in this books). The historical text is good. It is a petty because if that incorrect book can cause such misunderstandings among modellers what can we say about the majority of the people..
However the Figure is very good and if dear Babis (I hope so)you give it to a company I will take it for sure. Perhaps with some additional details I will Make a member of Komninos (Manouel Komninos not LAkis Komninos Family or a General or I do not Know what else. You extent my imagination. Hope to see it soon.
Keep up good work.
renarts
A Fixture
Wow, I feel fortunate to be able to witness a replay of the pelopinesian wars... (I jest)
It is usually best to back up references with availaible primary documentation. Even the Romans used artistic license in their depiction of portraits and illustrations of events of thier time. A more serious issue comes with depictions in later manuscripts of those held in less respect to those being depicted. A good example is the Macejowski Bible, a 13th c. English manuscript of the Old Testament. Biblical heroes are depicted in armor appropriate for 1250 while those opposing them are depicted in armor 100 years earlier. The Germans did this to great extent in their art of the 14th and 15th c. Showing images of the crucifiction with civilain figures wearing contemporary clothing and fashions while Roman soldiers wearing 13thc or 14th c.(armor fashionable 1-200 years prior) gamble beneath. A sharp contrast is created by the "bad guys" being depicted in what could be considered antique fashions. Essentially what I'm trying to say is don't take all images as gospel without a referencable source of documentation.
Take into account also that artists were commisioned. Their patrons paid handsomely for their protraits, sculptures, mosaics etc to be done that showed them off as they wished to be perceived. This may be more fanciful or in a more elaborate costume to show off thier stature, wealth or political alliances. This may not be accurate just vain on the part of the patron and smart on the part of the artist.
BTW there are several primary sources of documentation from the time period, including documents from the Pope and the Order of the Temple to safely depict Templars in white....
Not knowing enough about the Byzantine empire to say whether or not your depiction is accurate or not, I am impressed at the skill and beauty of the figure.
Everyone makes some excellent points. Thanks
It is usually best to back up references with availaible primary documentation. Even the Romans used artistic license in their depiction of portraits and illustrations of events of thier time. A more serious issue comes with depictions in later manuscripts of those held in less respect to those being depicted. A good example is the Macejowski Bible, a 13th c. English manuscript of the Old Testament. Biblical heroes are depicted in armor appropriate for 1250 while those opposing them are depicted in armor 100 years earlier. The Germans did this to great extent in their art of the 14th and 15th c. Showing images of the crucifiction with civilain figures wearing contemporary clothing and fashions while Roman soldiers wearing 13thc or 14th c.(armor fashionable 1-200 years prior) gamble beneath. A sharp contrast is created by the "bad guys" being depicted in what could be considered antique fashions. Essentially what I'm trying to say is don't take all images as gospel without a referencable source of documentation.
Take into account also that artists were commisioned. Their patrons paid handsomely for their protraits, sculptures, mosaics etc to be done that showed them off as they wished to be perceived. This may be more fanciful or in a more elaborate costume to show off thier stature, wealth or political alliances. This may not be accurate just vain on the part of the patron and smart on the part of the artist.
BTW there are several primary sources of documentation from the time period, including documents from the Pope and the Order of the Temple to safely depict Templars in white....
Not knowing enough about the Byzantine empire to say whether or not your depiction is accurate or not, I am impressed at the skill and beauty of the figure.
Everyone makes some excellent points. Thanks
Dear George (Akritis),
what a wonderful post! Excactly on my point. I agree 100% with you.
Everybody that read my original first post understood that:
1. I don´t claim that this is NO Byzantine.
2. I don´t claim byzantines didn´t used muscle cuirasses.
3. I don´t say this figure isn´t superb sculpted.
Since we don´t need fotos to be sure something as Costas claims, I accept the books, coins and endless frescos all over Mediterranean that shows an Emperor WITH a crone. And of course an Emperor could be forced in battle (physical I mean) but I don´t think that ever one planned to do so. So why carry a shield?
To come at the end of it, I never wanted to cause a havoc here. I just said my opinion as I asked to. I really hope Babis will give the figure to a company and I´ll be one of the first to buy it. I like byzantine figures and taken that too little of this category can be seen out there, I welcome the work of Babis. I hope he will keep on and give us some more examples of his superb scupting work.
Best Regards, Anastasios.
what a wonderful post! Excactly on my point. I agree 100% with you.
Everybody that read my original first post understood that:
1. I don´t claim that this is NO Byzantine.
2. I don´t claim byzantines didn´t used muscle cuirasses.
3. I don´t say this figure isn´t superb sculpted.
Since we don´t need fotos to be sure something as Costas claims, I accept the books, coins and endless frescos all over Mediterranean that shows an Emperor WITH a crone. And of course an Emperor could be forced in battle (physical I mean) but I don´t think that ever one planned to do so. So why carry a shield?
To come at the end of it, I never wanted to cause a havoc here. I just said my opinion as I asked to. I really hope Babis will give the figure to a company and I´ll be one of the first to buy it. I like byzantine figures and taken that too little of this category can be seen out there, I welcome the work of Babis. I hope he will keep on and give us some more examples of his superb scupting work.
Best Regards, Anastasios.
Major_Goose
A Fixture
Dear Anastasios in my presence of years on the internet forums i never used to fight back or be rude on an answer or anything . But i am forced to copy your own words to see on what i was answering tomy first post, that you obviously did not correctly understood, maybe because of my poor english....
So you said :
I don´t think that any Byzantine Emperor ever looked like that. The animal skin on his back for example. Or most important, his helmet. I can´t bring in mind a single pictorial evidence of an emperor wearing anything else on his head than a crone, at least the byzantine version of it. Another point of critic is the shield, I don´t think an emperor should carry one, he had too many people around him for this job. The muscle cuirass is also a little bit too overdetailed at the belly area and I think with this kind of armour he should wear the well known (from Roman times) band on his chest.
you use the words i think, i do not imagine , that obvioysly dont mean that you have strict evidence on what you say , and thats only your opinions.
When i talked on camera and pictures is because you talked on pictorial evidence , and i explained to you what has many times proved about painters of portraits of old times , that we can not verify with pictures of the same period. And that is simple logic thinking no expertise no imagination, no nothing else .
I also dont understand what ypou mean by saying this :
"And the magazine mentioned as a source is far from accepted as an archeological one and everybody in Greece knows well the political background of the Periscopio Publications."
The specific book and not magazine doesnt writes that is archaelogical magazine or anything, but is a simple historical presentation of information, and with many many credable sources mentioned as bibliography.
But since i now know that i dont live in Greece i will phone tommorow at Periskopio editions to ask about their political background and believs, so i can be included in the list of Greek Citizens.
Art painting should be an art, and i can definately claim that there is no one single miniature in the history of miniatures that is 100% correct and accurate to the smallest detail, and i would probbaly ve right. But is this the issue ?is this the problem? I am not a historician nor i pretend to be and i dont wish to be . Thats why i ask people who know more and i read books written from experts no matter what their political background is .
Its nice to know that you will buy the figure despite the huge historical innaccuracy and i believe that you will do your best to trabsform it to an accurate one. And i would love to see the results , so i can take a picture of what exactly you meant on your posts. At the end of May the figure will be available for seeling in white metal .
So i think we can talk again then
Best regards to Germany from Griechenland
Costas
So you said :
I don´t think that any Byzantine Emperor ever looked like that. The animal skin on his back for example. Or most important, his helmet. I can´t bring in mind a single pictorial evidence of an emperor wearing anything else on his head than a crone, at least the byzantine version of it. Another point of critic is the shield, I don´t think an emperor should carry one, he had too many people around him for this job. The muscle cuirass is also a little bit too overdetailed at the belly area and I think with this kind of armour he should wear the well known (from Roman times) band on his chest.
you use the words i think, i do not imagine , that obvioysly dont mean that you have strict evidence on what you say , and thats only your opinions.
When i talked on camera and pictures is because you talked on pictorial evidence , and i explained to you what has many times proved about painters of portraits of old times , that we can not verify with pictures of the same period. And that is simple logic thinking no expertise no imagination, no nothing else .
I also dont understand what ypou mean by saying this :
"And the magazine mentioned as a source is far from accepted as an archeological one and everybody in Greece knows well the political background of the Periscopio Publications."
The specific book and not magazine doesnt writes that is archaelogical magazine or anything, but is a simple historical presentation of information, and with many many credable sources mentioned as bibliography.
But since i now know that i dont live in Greece i will phone tommorow at Periskopio editions to ask about their political background and believs, so i can be included in the list of Greek Citizens.
Art painting should be an art, and i can definately claim that there is no one single miniature in the history of miniatures that is 100% correct and accurate to the smallest detail, and i would probbaly ve right. But is this the issue ?is this the problem? I am not a historician nor i pretend to be and i dont wish to be . Thats why i ask people who know more and i read books written from experts no matter what their political background is .
Its nice to know that you will buy the figure despite the huge historical innaccuracy and i believe that you will do your best to trabsform it to an accurate one. And i would love to see the results , so i can take a picture of what exactly you meant on your posts. At the end of May the figure will be available for seeling in white metal .
So i think we can talk again then
Best regards to Germany from Griechenland
Costas
Costas,
I would never, ever try and transform this figure to make it conform to something. Why? First, I´m not that skilled as Babis is and second, there´s nothing wrong with it (no "huge inaccuracy" then). It´s just not an Emperor. As I already mentioned, it´s absolutely PERFECT for a higher official (a General for example) and this way I´ll handle this figure.
If I have strict evidence of what I say? Every single fresco, illuminated manuscript and coins that depict an Emperor. All of them depict an Emperor carrying a crown and no one a wolfskin. What´s your evidence?
And as for the Periscopio, I´m their customer for more than a decade. I understand they try to make some historical propaganda (and why) but I stay immune by reading historic books from all over the world. They lie too but somewhere in middle lies the truth. And of course naming a 10€ booklet as a historic source is somehow cheap.
I would like to know (I think everybody) from which company will this figure be released, will be Athens Miniatures?
I would never, ever try and transform this figure to make it conform to something. Why? First, I´m not that skilled as Babis is and second, there´s nothing wrong with it (no "huge inaccuracy" then). It´s just not an Emperor. As I already mentioned, it´s absolutely PERFECT for a higher official (a General for example) and this way I´ll handle this figure.
If I have strict evidence of what I say? Every single fresco, illuminated manuscript and coins that depict an Emperor. All of them depict an Emperor carrying a crown and no one a wolfskin. What´s your evidence?
And as for the Periscopio, I´m their customer for more than a decade. I understand they try to make some historical propaganda (and why) but I stay immune by reading historic books from all over the world. They lie too but somewhere in middle lies the truth. And of course naming a 10€ booklet as a historic source is somehow cheap.
I would like to know (I think everybody) from which company will this figure be released, will be Athens Miniatures?
Kyle
Well-Known Member
Babis,
This is an extraordinary character and pose. I really like the authority and power you have given him. Excellent. Who will be carrying this figure? I want to put it on my short list.
Cheers,
Kyle
This is an extraordinary character and pose. I really like the authority and power you have given him. Excellent. Who will be carrying this figure? I want to put it on my short list.
Cheers,
Kyle
Akritis
Well-Known Member
About Roman Emperors of Constantinopol:
If we want to reconstract a Byzantine Emperor we must firstly diside whice of them, so that we find specific details about the person.
It is like trying to build Napoleon. We do not have any photo of him, but we have paintings ( as Byzantine fresco, illuminated manuscript etc.),
we have items of napoleonic period (also surviving items from Byzantium are all over the world) and we have discriptions
(as we have huge number of discriptions from Byzantine Literature about every emperor).
So we have to check 3 thinks not only one artist, not only one text. We have bouth source and contrast them with Archeology.
An other one evident is that many of the Emperors never left the secure walls of their capital,
and some of them never picked up any weapon. Warriors Emperors was only some of them and this fact discrease the number of persons.
About the Helmet. Emperor's helmet could be posibly of that type with cold and presious stones.There are sources with it
But the Characteristic think was the peacoke's plume everywere.
They were also using a type that was close Enough to a crone (skylitsis manuscript and other sources)
We have Proofs of that from justinian period until the end of the empire. And this plume concerns the campaine armour of the emperor.
About the cuirass.
We have seen many types during the thousand years lived Empire. Maskle or scaly it was for sure gilded.
Very often we see gold "manikelia" around the arms. About the doubleheaded eagle is said that Byzantine Emperors
start using it after 11th ce. but it was an old symbol of the empire possoble of Anatolia so we have to make a researh on it. However the emperor
used eagle with one head. The traditional weapons of the emperor was his sword and his spear (red shaft with cold lance) and his shield. This items was carried by "Akolouthos"
a very high office a person how was very close to the emperor and his sword had cold shaft. Some times the title "akolouthos" was given to more than one person.
This titles was of the higher of Roman court of this time. The Boots that they had a specific name (Tsagia), was red and in many discriptions and paintings we can distinguish hauler on them.
Of course the leader of the Christan religion as it was the emperor this days would never put the ( X Ρ) on his shoes But on his shield possibly.
An other usefull mention is that "Aρχάγγελος"archangel and when everwe see an "Αρχάγγελο" in Byzantine art is always wairing Emperors Armoure and this is axiomatic.
Byzantine art is so correct and detailed sometimes, that it is very difficult for a modeller to recopy the details. You can copy a warrior saint of 10th ce. for example and
make it a figure without using any other source but that. For sure this fresco is a portrait of the officer who pay the artist and by that way he was trying to have the protection and bless from the saint.
Even if this is sound strange for some people it is true. Byzantine iconografy is very realistic and force you to be hamble. Just look more cearfully and do not belive in "experts" that illustrate Christian Emperors look
like Conan the Barbarian from the North or a Byzantine Cavalarios dressed as hurdy guardy.
If we want to reconstract a Byzantine Emperor we must firstly diside whice of them, so that we find specific details about the person.
It is like trying to build Napoleon. We do not have any photo of him, but we have paintings ( as Byzantine fresco, illuminated manuscript etc.),
we have items of napoleonic period (also surviving items from Byzantium are all over the world) and we have discriptions
(as we have huge number of discriptions from Byzantine Literature about every emperor).
So we have to check 3 thinks not only one artist, not only one text. We have bouth source and contrast them with Archeology.
An other one evident is that many of the Emperors never left the secure walls of their capital,
and some of them never picked up any weapon. Warriors Emperors was only some of them and this fact discrease the number of persons.
About the Helmet. Emperor's helmet could be posibly of that type with cold and presious stones.There are sources with it
But the Characteristic think was the peacoke's plume everywere.
They were also using a type that was close Enough to a crone (skylitsis manuscript and other sources)
We have Proofs of that from justinian period until the end of the empire. And this plume concerns the campaine armour of the emperor.
About the cuirass.
We have seen many types during the thousand years lived Empire. Maskle or scaly it was for sure gilded.
Very often we see gold "manikelia" around the arms. About the doubleheaded eagle is said that Byzantine Emperors
start using it after 11th ce. but it was an old symbol of the empire possoble of Anatolia so we have to make a researh on it. However the emperor
used eagle with one head. The traditional weapons of the emperor was his sword and his spear (red shaft with cold lance) and his shield. This items was carried by "Akolouthos"
a very high office a person how was very close to the emperor and his sword had cold shaft. Some times the title "akolouthos" was given to more than one person.
This titles was of the higher of Roman court of this time. The Boots that they had a specific name (Tsagia), was red and in many discriptions and paintings we can distinguish hauler on them.
Of course the leader of the Christan religion as it was the emperor this days would never put the ( X Ρ) on his shoes But on his shield possibly.
An other usefull mention is that "Aρχάγγελος"archangel and when everwe see an "Αρχάγγελο" in Byzantine art is always wairing Emperors Armoure and this is axiomatic.
Byzantine art is so correct and detailed sometimes, that it is very difficult for a modeller to recopy the details. You can copy a warrior saint of 10th ce. for example and
make it a figure without using any other source but that. For sure this fresco is a portrait of the officer who pay the artist and by that way he was trying to have the protection and bless from the saint.
Even if this is sound strange for some people it is true. Byzantine iconografy is very realistic and force you to be hamble. Just look more cearfully and do not belive in "experts" that illustrate Christian Emperors look
like Conan the Barbarian from the North or a Byzantine Cavalarios dressed as hurdy guardy.
Akritis
Well-Known Member
Theodoros
A Fixture
Keep on Babis the good work, giving us splentind greek miniatures, with anatomical and historical accuracy, real artistic works.
George and Anstasie, it is so easy for any modeller to put a nameplate to the figure that describes best for him the specific subject, if he does not likes the title in the boxart : "High rank byzantine officer", "Byzantine general" and so on. It is obvious and logic, that just in a moment during a hard campaign, passing high mountains, even an emperor -but a warrior emperor- could wear something else than the usual armor or clothes of the Court !
George and Anstasie, it is so easy for any modeller to put a nameplate to the figure that describes best for him the specific subject, if he does not likes the title in the boxart : "High rank byzantine officer", "Byzantine general" and so on. It is obvious and logic, that just in a moment during a hard campaign, passing high mountains, even an emperor -but a warrior emperor- could wear something else than the usual armor or clothes of the Court !
Akritis
Well-Known Member
My Friend Theodoros you must read all posts carefylly. Then you will see that the disagreement is not about Babis Figure. Actually it is not about figures at all. The figure is perfect any way
Akritis
Well-Known Member
My friend Theodoros if you read all posts carefully you will see that the disagreement is not about Babis Figure. Actually it is not about figures genarally. The figure is perfect anyway.
