valiant
A Fixture
At this time, LHD and RHD were at the whim of the manufacturer and didnt follow the modern rules. Model Ts were produced in both, depending on year of manufacture, so its unlikely to be a clue as to the country of its make!
WIP Grandad's WW1 ambulance
- Thread starter NeilW
- Start date
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NeilW
A Fixture
Yes, thanks, I sussed that out from that missing-lynx site (also that early tyres were whitish until they copied USA methods and switched to a carbon based additive).
Keep on looking
Keep on looking
valiant
A Fixture
...known in this country as Banbury Black...
NeilW
A Fixture
Still searching (and awaiting approval to ask on that missing-lynx site).
But I did find this (Sadie Talbot MM Obit).
It doesn't give a make (can anyone make out the badge?) I know the wheels aren't the same but I thought the rad looked similar... though now I'm doubting it?
UPDATE: this is now resolved: it's a USA GMC vehicle (and not Grandad's).
This guy inherited three of them and was able to rebuild two from the parts:
https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/25059-ww1-gmc-ambulances/
But I did find this (Sadie Talbot MM Obit).
It doesn't give a make (can anyone make out the badge?) I know the wheels aren't the same but I thought the rad looked similar... though now I'm doubting it?
UPDATE: this is now resolved: it's a USA GMC vehicle (and not Grandad's).
This guy inherited three of them and was able to rebuild two from the parts:
https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/25059-ww1-gmc-ambulances/
Richard Baxter
A Fixture
Have tried blowing the pic up but it's not very distinct. The logo at the top of the radiator appears to be 3 letters. Can't make out the one on the left of the pic (although it could be an S), the middle one looks like a T or maybe a Y or M, the right one is a G or a C. Any help?
Richard Baxter
A Fixture
Just had a thought: SMC...Sunbeam Motor Company? A Wiki search provided this as a 1916 ambulance. I know that the wheels are different but I expect they were changed for something more robust but the rest looks the same to my uneducated eye. Interesting symbols on the vehicle!
Hi guys
This is what PF is all about ...great response to the question
Following this with interest
Maybe we are close to a ID with Richards post
Look forward to seeing the Modellng as well
Nap
This is what PF is all about ...great response to the question
Following this with interest
Maybe we are close to a ID with Richards post
Look forward to seeing the Modellng as well
Nap
NeilW
A Fixture
Thanks Richard... but not too sure about the id
I've been looking at Sunbeams as well (inc this pic)... but not sure if they cast light on the issue
In fact I came on this site and dismissed them quite early on (see my reasons below):
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/commercial/sunbeam.htm
Seems they were built by Rover as the MoD wanted Sunbeam to concentrate on aeroplane engines:
https://www.svvs.org/help45.shtml
There's rebuilt one in NZ (is the pic NZ-the bod on the right's hat in your photo may suggest so?)
Various others (the blue one is 1924 but it shows the radiator style well):
However, there are some points of difference:
These are good side by side comparisons (high contrast to bring out the details):
This is interesting as it notes that vehicles were built on rolling chassis and also mentions one based on a 16hp Sunbeam
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....mbulances-celebrated-100-years-ago-big-crowd/
This of course allows plenty of scope for a Sunbeam chassis but bodied as a one-off or small run (also easier if it comes to scratch-building as nobody can prove you wrong!)
Then, frustratingly I came across this:
It seems to be the nearest match so far but again the badge etc are unclear (but doesn't look like Sunbeam's?)
I've got some new sources to try out (and still waiting for the OK from missing-lynx)... otherwise it's over to you
BTW: ref swastikas: I believe that they were quite common/popular as a good luck symbol in Europe in the 1900-1930s (before Hitler hijacked them that is). They were used on tanks, fighter planes etc and are still popular in Hundu temples etc, and in Malaysia I came across a Chinese Ladies Silver Swastika Society.
I've been looking at Sunbeams as well (inc this pic)... but not sure if they cast light on the issue
In fact I came on this site and dismissed them quite early on (see my reasons below):
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/commercial/sunbeam.htm
Seems they were built by Rover as the MoD wanted Sunbeam to concentrate on aeroplane engines:
https://www.svvs.org/help45.shtml
There's rebuilt one in NZ (is the pic NZ-the bod on the right's hat in your photo may suggest so?)
Various others (the blue one is 1924 but it shows the radiator style well):
However, there are some points of difference:
- to my eyes the top of the radiator looks deeper(but that may be an illusion)
- more importantly, the front wing is flared into the running board rather than cut off in an abrupt joint
- the rear wing is shorter (finishes at c 2 o'clock) and slightly flared rather than being more rounded 90 degrees
- the seats look quite different
- large, squarish bulkhead
- Grandad's lacks the side fairing with the oval window (though this may be a canvas fairing?)
- the tilt is different: to my eyes it looks as if the Sunbeams have a solid roof?
These are good side by side comparisons (high contrast to bring out the details):
This is interesting as it notes that vehicles were built on rolling chassis and also mentions one based on a 16hp Sunbeam
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....mbulances-celebrated-100-years-ago-big-crowd/
This of course allows plenty of scope for a Sunbeam chassis but bodied as a one-off or small run (also easier if it comes to scratch-building as nobody can prove you wrong!)
Then, frustratingly I came across this:
It seems to be the nearest match so far but again the badge etc are unclear (but doesn't look like Sunbeam's?)
I've got some new sources to try out (and still waiting for the OK from missing-lynx)... otherwise it's over to you
BTW: ref swastikas: I believe that they were quite common/popular as a good luck symbol in Europe in the 1900-1930s (before Hitler hijacked them that is). They were used on tanks, fighter planes etc and are still popular in Hundu temples etc, and in Malaysia I came across a Chinese Ladies Silver Swastika Society.
NeilW
A Fixture
I reckon this is a match... but still don't know what it is (I've started putting requests out with various WW1/vintage vehicle sites).
Compare:
Some points of similarity: the bonnet and rad shape, the headlamp prongs, brackets on bulhead for lamps, the seat, the bulkhead, flared wings; the half canvas tilt on the body, no side panel/peephole, general size/wheelbase etc
Compare:
Some points of similarity: the bonnet and rad shape, the headlamp prongs, brackets on bulhead for lamps, the seat, the bulkhead, flared wings; the half canvas tilt on the body, no side panel/peephole, general size/wheelbase etc
Richard Baxter
A Fixture
Am sure that you're right, it was always a longshot based on what I thought I could make out from the badge. Worth a punt though.
Curiously, my Dad was a medic in the RAMC in WW2 although I have no pics of him in the field, just one of him in a very new uniform taken in Aldershot. He was in the 11th Armoured Div in Northern Germany at the end of the war and became a civilian nurse afterwards.
Curiously, my Dad was a medic in the RAMC in WW2 although I have no pics of him in the field, just one of him in a very new uniform taken in Aldershot. He was in the 11th Armoured Div in Northern Germany at the end of the war and became a civilian nurse afterwards.
NeilW
A Fixture
Yep: too similar not to be the same:
a) wire wheels
b) front springs
c) deep lower rim to radiator
d) 'prongs' for headlights
e) deep rounded top to radiator with central round bardhe
f) shaping of front mudguard
g) flare into running board
h) hinging and 'square-rounding' of bonnet
i) bonnet runs flush into bulkhead
j) brackets for sidelights
k) seat
l) height & squared corner of bulkhead
m) no side panel/peephole
o) both seem to be donated by the [British]Red Cross Society
Somethings are different, notably the windscreen (removed in my pic) and the sha[pe of the hood/tilt... but the basics seem the same.
All we need to do now is work out what ambulance B is
a) wire wheels
b) front springs
c) deep lower rim to radiator
d) 'prongs' for headlights
e) deep rounded top to radiator with central round bardhe
f) shaping of front mudguard
g) flare into running board
h) hinging and 'square-rounding' of bonnet
i) bonnet runs flush into bulkhead
j) brackets for sidelights
k) seat
l) height & squared corner of bulkhead
m) no side panel/peephole
o) both seem to be donated by the [British]Red Cross Society
Somethings are different, notably the windscreen (removed in my pic) and the sha[pe of the hood/tilt... but the basics seem the same.
All we need to do now is work out what ambulance B is
NeilW
A Fixture
A bit more digging:
"Mauldslie" was an estate in Lanarkshire owned by the Hozier family: it could well be that they (or the area) donated the ambulance (but I can't find any record of this).
Looking at the bod's uniform I reckon he's RAMC (and possibly a conscientious objector?)
What seems to be the same vehicle (even more like Grandad's) has now cropped up as being donated/run by the Salvation Army.
https://archives.salvationarmy.org.nz/article/provision-ambulances-first-world-war
... and do I spy yet another ANZAC link on the lower right?????
"Mauldslie" was an estate in Lanarkshire owned by the Hozier family: it could well be that they (or the area) donated the ambulance (but I can't find any record of this).
Looking at the bod's uniform I reckon he's RAMC (and possibly a conscientious objector?)
What seems to be the same vehicle (even more like Grandad's) has now cropped up as being donated/run by the Salvation Army.
https://archives.salvationarmy.org.nz/article/provision-ambulances-first-world-war
... and do I spy yet another ANZAC link on the lower right?????
NeilW
A Fixture
At least I've now found a model of the Sunbeam ambulance
https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=134590
https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=134590
valiant
A Fixture
The rad and chassis layout is very similar to a Wolseley type ambulance, but not an exact match. I think it is from one of the myriad British manufacturers of the time, just trying to ID the radiator shape....
NeilW
A Fixture
The rad and chassis layout is very similar to a Wolseley type ambulance, but not an exact match. I think it is from one of the myriad British manufacturers of the time, just trying to ID the radiator shape....
Thanks for the idea (see link for one)... very different radiator and hood?
That radiator is proving very pesky... someone out there must know (I've now asked on two other sites).
Neil
NeilW
A Fixture
Sorry for inflicting this on you, but I've dug out some more photos of Grandad 
.
These are him solo; with 'Uncle Tom' and in Cairo/Alexandria (Sept 1916-far left in shorts).
Anyone know what the various sleeve chevrons denote (he was only ever a private so perhaps they're trade insignia?)
.These are him solo; with 'Uncle Tom' and in Cairo/Alexandria (Sept 1916-far left in shorts).
Anyone know what the various sleeve chevrons denote (he was only ever a private so perhaps they're trade insignia?)
valiant
A Fixture
the small chevrons on the right sleeve denote overseas service and the larger ones on the left sleeve are Good Conduct stripes...
NeilW
A Fixture
the small chevrons on the right sleeve denote overseas service and the larger ones on the left sleeve are Good Conduct stripes...
OK... thanks Steve, WW1 isn't really my thing
Do I assume the usual off-white on a khaki backing (tho' Tom's look whiter?)
Both have four chevrons: is it one badge or does it infer four o/seas postings?
Would they be worn on service or just dress uniform (that is, if you can call the scruffy RASC outfit 'dress'
)What's the (metal?) tag above the breast pocket?
Neil
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