Interested in sculpting but haven't tried?

[Einion]

Thought it would be useful for people who like the idea of being able to sculpt their own stuff but haven't dipped their toe in the water yet to get input from others who were in the same position, hopefully we should be able to help you get over the first hurdle.

So, any particular sticking points... like:

don't know what sculpting material(s) to use;
can't get on with the material;
don't have the tools/can't afford the tools;
don't know where to start?​

Einion

 

[Meehan34]

Thought it would be useful for people who like the idea of being able to sculpt their own stuff but haven't dipped their toe in the water yet to get input from others who were in the same position, hopefully we should be able to help you get over the first hurdle.

So, any particular sticking points... like:

don't know what sculpting material(s) to use;​

can't get on with the material;​

don't have the tools/can't afford the tools;​

don't know where to start?​

Einion

don't know what sculpting material(s) to use; I have Aves Apoxy sculpt but seems hard to work with for fine detail​

can't get on with the material; yep, too sticky then too firm​

don't have the tools/can't afford the tools; Don't have them, need to get them?​

don't know where to start? I think I do but the above prevents it.​

​

I have seen all kinds of stuff on youtube and the like on sculpting. It looks so easy but when I go to do it, it is so freaking hard. I may be using the wrong medium?​

 

[Anders Heintz]

Mike, I'll be happy to get you started when we get together in August. I can give you a crash course

 

[Piotrec]

Once in a while I think about sculpting as well. I use a A+B putty and white Magic Sculpt. Anytime I try Magic Sculpt it does not feel comfortable. It is very sticky, my finger prints are all over the putty, than it gets to firm and I cannot do anything with it. I do not use any specilized tools, do not even know what would be the best choice.
This is a good idea Einion. I cannot wait to see how this thread will develop.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Try sculpey at first and then move to epoxies later. Sculpey is user friendly, easy to find (at least in NA) and cheap. If you screw up your sculpt you can mash it and start over of chuck it out at almost no cost.

Sculpey is soft enough to allow sculpting with a rubber colour shaper tool, hard tools or even a brush if dilutant is added. You can model (i.e. add material) or carve (i.e. rmeove material) or both. You can carve it if its baked, sand it or deemel it. Its particulalry useful for busts and once baked is durable enough to be a casting master or an original to paint.

For tools, the colour shapers I already mentioend are great, as are wooden sculpting tools available at many art shops. I also like Rio Rondo carbide scrapers for shaving baked sculpey.

Start with a brush as the proportions of head, neck and bust are easier to manage that a full figure, you don't need much of an armature, you don't need worry about full figure anatomy and pose. Most peopel find the face hardest - if you can pull that off you should have the confidence to do a full figure.

Don't be too hard on yoruself and post what you do for comment.

Just some misc thoughts to start the dsicussions.

Colin

 

[old grumbler]

Milliput super fine white and Magic sculpt white work best for me. Tried every putty going and always return to Milliput, there's something wonderful about the way it carves and the way the light works on white, similar to marble making it easier to see form. Magic sculpt is great because it's like wax, together they make a great combo. figurative sculpting is hard and the only way to improve is to be hard with yourself and not get into bad habits and be critical of your own work. Study the work of Phillippe Faraut as well as classical statues and busts, it's a learning curve, you won't be Maurizio Bruno or Andrea Jula overnight but the road there is fun.

 

[valiant]

I would recommend complete beginners start with plasticine. It is cheap, and can be re used if you stuff it up! It will enable you to practise using basic tools and to see the impressions/blends possible. Nearly all of my tools are made by me, mostly brass rod filed to specific shapes, with a few commercially available from Alec Tiranti, in the UK. I do not think that there is any mystique in sculpting, just practice, learn as you go, but most of all, enjoy it!
Steve

 

[stu]

Hi,

Sculpting is like painting,,,the more you do the better you get !!!.

It has been described as pushing putty about ????? I suppose slapping paint on it would be a similar annalogy.

Mike, I too use Aves and it is sooooo good. Try the white or superfine white if you have the standard version and I suppose a simple point to make is ,,dont put too much putty on the armature. Build your manaquin to resemble a human or whatever then dress it. Some start at the top some the bottom.... I always work bottom up and think about the layers of clothing,,,what comes next.

All the epoxy putties seam to be mixable, I put procreate with aves and this is cool esp for drapery or tight folds etc.. as my stuff needs to be moulded I use different putties for strength and tackynees !! A+B is great at this but for me useless for clothing but others find it great.

The best tools are good paint brushes for blending and even sculpting with it. One of my best tools is a brass rod, one end is rounded the other to a point, its great.

If using epoxy putties choose one area ie the left trouser leg, sculpt it and leave it. Dont do both as you wont have enough time, you will also probably put your fingers over something you just sculpted ,,,not good.

Play with the putties and see what they do, and what they are capable of doing, then you can use the right one for the job and hence improve what you sculpt.

Miliput is generally great alround but i just cant get on with it so i dont use it.

Hope this helps

Stuart

 

[Einion]

Apologies for the delay in getting back to the thread but pF went down for me yesterday evening.

can't get on with the material; yep, too sticky then too firm

I don't think Apoxie Sculpt is the easiest medium to get used to, for a long time I found it way too soft as well, but I've recently gotten to like this very property (showing the value of practice).

It does get very firm eventually, while still being movable, but you should get a good chunk of time in between when it's stiffer but still very workable. Have any idea of how long it stays workable for you? This does apparently vary quite a bit from person to person, don't know why, as well as with temperature - less time in summer, more time when it's cold.

I don't know of any simple way of making it stiffer with something you have to hand so if you find you really just can't get on with it at this point it might be worth switching to something else - you can always return to the AS later when you've developed the 'touch'. MagicSculp is the best starter material of all the stuff I've tried. Apoxie Clay is also worth considering if you think something quite stiff will suit.

don't know what sculpting material(s) to use; I have Aves Apoxy sculpt but seems hard to work with for fine detail

Fine details are definitely possible, but it's also not the easiest material to see them in. Especially once cured, when it goes a touch translucent. Making the surface matt can help with this - scrub with an abrasive kitchen cleaner using a stiff brush or go over it with a fibreglass eraser, both work.

One simple solution to seeing, and therefore being able to form, fine details in AS would be to switch to one of the coloured ones, but obviously this involved buying in new material that you still might not get on with. But you can easily tint epoxy clays with a bit of acrylic paint or powdered pigment (including graphite, which turns it a charcoal grey).

don't have the tools/can't afford the tools; Don't have them, need to get them?

I think having some dedicated sculpting tools is totally the way to go, but they certainly don't have to be bought in. If you have nothing at all currently at the simplest you can set to work with one shaped cocktail stick, a needle and a brush (not forgetting the tip of the handle can be useful too). Oh and a slightly blunt craft knife for cutting back, sharpening edges.

don't know where to start? I think I do but the above prevents it.

I'll be posting some general tips lower down that might help you get going. Now most of the advice is pretty basic but there may be something in it that might not have occurred to you or have read elsewhere. Might turn out that using all the tips together is the thing that'll do it for you (in the same way that better brushes and new lighting might for detail painting).

I have seen all kinds of stuff on youtube and the like on sculpting. It looks so easy but when I go to do it, it is so freaking hard. I may be using the wrong medium?

Most things are hard to begin with and sculpting sure isn't an exception! But it is possible that a different material might make a world of difference to you... that was the way it was for me.

When all I had to work with was Milliput I thought I'd never do anything, it was a total sea change once I got my hands on some Sylmasta (because it's stiffer and much less sticky) and then Kneadatite, eventually using a blend of the two gave me something I really liked. Another big step up then when I eventually bought some MagicSculp online, which for me at least was better still than the blends I'd been using.

Einion

 

[Einion]

Once in a while I think about sculpting as well. I use a A+B putty and white Magic Sculpt. Anytime I try Magic Sculpt it does not feel comfortable. It is very sticky, my finger prints are all over the putty, than it gets to firm and I cannot do anything with it.

The main fix for an over-sticky putty is to use some form of lubrication, although the type of tool you're using makes some difference. A sticky putty is an advantage, in many ways it's far worse to have a putty which is not sticky at all since you'll have lots of trouble all the time getting it to stay put. More extensive tips on this to come.

Similar to what I say to Mike above, you should get a decent window of improved working consistency between the initial soft/tacky stage and when it gets much firmer but is still moveable. For me this window is up to around two hours. Do you have an idea of how long you get between the end of mixing and the MS being too hard to shape without cracking?

As for fingerprints, couple of easy solutions to these which I'll post lower down in my general tips since it's a problem that everyone has had.

I do not use any specilized tools, do not even know what would be the best choice.

I think at least a few tools specifically intended for sculpting are a must, but what's best nobody can say I'm afraid - everyone has to try a few things and see what suits them personally.

I first used shaped cocktail sticks from reading about them in Bill Horan's articles and Mike Good still uses these as his primary tools, so clearly they're capable of a lot! But I found their small size began to cramp my hands so I looked to try things with longer handles, which eventually led to me trying metal sculpting tools. These are now my primary tools (one or two in particular) although I still occasionally make new tools to try them out, see if they help.

This is a good idea Einion. I cannot wait to see how this thread will develop.

Einion

 

[mcsnead17]

The last time i tried was with Bill Merklin at one of our meetings and i tried but did not come out the way i wanted to. P.S. he used clay.

 

[kidsbday7]

A beginner's point of view –

I got interested in sculpting last Fall after the Chicago show and seeing stuff from Bill Horan, Anders and others. I have been trying to find out the best approaches to learn and agree practicing is probably the best way. However, there are some gaps to my learning that I will offer up for consideration as a beginner. I should also say that sculpting appears to be like 3d painting and in my opinion is the pinnacle of modeling in general. I do not have natural talent here, and so some of my points may be lost of those of you who just get it.

I started with references to build more a background for figure sculpting and the ones I found very useful as a beginner are here:

There are others of course, but there was specific “learnings” from each of these that helped build overall narrative. Bill Horan – body language/balance, dynamic posing, importance of face, etc. Mike Blank – body language, figure interaction, and importance of hands. Dynamics of Wrinkles – there is physics behind what looks right for folds, etc.

Other sources include forums such as this, blogs like Ander’s, Gary’s, Remy’s, etc. Magazines articles, and believe it or not Facebook – Radek, Nello, Nino, Gerard, etc.

I will speak of materials first. I am practicing using Super Sculpey Firm at the suggestion of Gerard. The reason I would recommend a polymer clay (or not epoxy putty) for beginners is you don’t have limited time to get it right (similar to what was mentioned above). Pretty obvious. Eventually I would like to graduate to epoxy putties, but not there yet. I have all of them to Procreate, Magic Sculpt, Green Stuff, Aves. Kind of like Magic Sculpt when I have used it.

Tools – there have been a lot of post about tools here, so I won’t talk a lot about them. Here is what I am currently using:

I’ll talk more about tools in a bit from a beginner’s point of view.

Body Posture – I think this should be the most straight forward. You have references everywhere – including looking in the mirror, or making your kid pose for you. Key I learned from watching Ander’s blog is making the armature sturdy so you can really be rough with it and change it around. I think this is an important point for beginners. Also, learned a lot from watching Doug Cohen’s armature’s on Timelines

Now I will share what I think is the most difficult thing to do and it ties in with tools. I think this is the biggest gap for someone starting out other than doing faces (amazed at Gordy’s work) and hands - its drapery and folds. What tools do you use to get what effects? Do you add material or just push what is there around? I have no narrative here how to do this and available resources are not real clear to me in this area. There are a couple of pretty good SBS that allude to some of this.

Radek’s where he shows the tools in his step by step – very rarely done.
http://www.modelarstworedukcyjne.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=196%3Arosyjski-onierz-budowa-figurki&catid=45%3Ain-english&Itemid=59

Joaquin’s – shows adding material for folds and what tool he used.

http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=1479

Ander’s – this is one of the closest I have seen that describes what tools gives what results for folds.

http://www.timelinesforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=971

Gerard’s – I translated it, but a really good attempt at describing how he produces folds and what tools, including some diagrams. This is a good SBS for beginners.

http://www.small-tracks.org/t2912p30-sculpture-d-une-figurine

Gary’s – I found this interesting because he adds material to produce folds and I am not sure if others do this or not, but found this useful as a beginner. My speculation is that different people use different methods.

http://www.planetfigure.com/threads/sculpting-101-step-by-step.18614/

And I found this one which also added to the narrative of adding material to produce folds. Again not sure if this is a common method or not. Or just a method.

http://figurki.org/od-podstaw/step-by-step/1175-od-podstaw-faldy-materialu


I have listed these because they are helping me as a beginner. But as a beginner, I still don’t have a good narrative of folds – what tools to be used for what kind’s – sharp tools for tight folds, round end tools for more general compressions, etc.

No one is obligated to share, but from a beginner’s point of view, I think this is the biggest gap in awareness. How different people get certain folding results with different tools. Do you add, remove, or push material to get the effects.

One other important point that I am watching is from Mike Good when he talks about scale fidelity. I think trying to maintain scale with thickness of material, etc. is a very valuable insight.

Below is what I am attempting (no laughing please). I went on vacation and packed this stuff up and attempted to try folds on the middle guy's right leg(way too many). Just a WIP. Trying to match 6 figures in 1/48 scale to Evolution’s awesome 1/48 SS figures (seen on the right). Menelay’s folds are insanely good and I have no idea how he does this. Scene will be something inspired by Luc Klinker’s wonderful German Halftrack vignette.

That’s it from a beginner’s point of view and where I am at from watching all of you. Love what you guys do. Sorry for long post.

Phil

 

[ChaosCossack]

This is a very informative thread... I picked up Mr Horan's Masterclass book a couple of weeks ago and it's put a bit of a burr under my saddle to try sculpting. It seems the hardest part is getting started

 

[Piotrec]

Do you have an idea of how long you get between the end of mixing and the MS being too hard to shape without cracking?
Einion

It's hard to say precisely. Maybe around two hours. After that it just breaks to small pieces anytime I try to do something with it. It might be related to water. I use it quite often to clean my tools, fingers or smooth the surface.

 

[Dan Morton]

Just a little comment about fingers and smoothing the surface. Not a good idea, friends.

All of the commercial two part air-drying catalyst and resin mixes have chemicals which can provoke irritating dermatitis and progressive sensitization. Either wear thin plastic gloves when you sculpt (I do.) and/or use tools to touch the mixed sculpting material. When you are finished sculpting, wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water. Don't think, "Nonsense, it won't happen to me." It does and it will. A hobby shouldn't cause you health problems.

All the best,
Dan

 

[ChaosCossack]

Philip, after going through the links you posted, I must say, alot of the intimidation factor of attempting my first sculpt has been relieved... thank you. I guess before attempting a subject figure, I feel I'd be best served to try some practice situations first.... bent and straight limbs, hanging fabric etc.

This has been very helpful

 

[kidsbday7]

Hi Collin. I was hopeful that the perspective of someone just starting out on this difficult path might be useful. Take anything I have said with a grain of salt because I am absolutely a beginner. I have been studying some of this, but at the end of the day you really just have to do it and try. Like you said practice situations, or maybe changing an arm on an existing figure etc. If you are like me (no natural talent and very high expectations), you will become frustrated. Put it aside and come back later. I have a feeling that this is very difficult in the beggining, but when you start to build a refined narrative about the materials, the tools, body positure, folds, scale fidelity, etc. it will get easier and easier. Its just like anything else - some of us will have to work harder at it than others though - just like anything else.

I would hope that if others have similar good threads they may be inclined to share them because I could use a lot more help. Specifically, on what I had discussed in my post as the biggest gap.

Do check in here with whatever you do. Even with all the masters here, it could be useful for others to see your progress and sharing what you have learned and more importantly how you learned it. That's the point of a community.

If there is anything I can do to help - don't hesitiate to ask.

Phil

 

[david pickford]

well partly you use what's available. In England, we don't have all these putties, maybe I could source them from model shows or the internet, but I use milliput standard to flesh the armature ( its cheap and easy to work with) then sculpt with magisculp- I love the way you can smooth it with water and it takes detail- and then maybe detail work with 'green stuff'.

Magisculp is the 'uberputty' that I have encountered. I love the smell and it never dries out until you mix it, which is a real plus if you don't get through it too quick. I have ordered a 500g pack last time accordingly!

 

[Einion]

Most of my input will be geared towards epoxy sculpting compounds and working 'wet' - plastic sculpting, as opposed to carving*.

Polymer clays - have to be hardened by heating - are great sculpting materials but I don't think they're as easy to learn how to use as self-hardening compounds. The very property that is their key advantage, that they stay workable essentially indefinitely, is the very thing that makes them harder to use (try one and see what you think yourself). For the same reason I don't think you should practice on Plasticine/Plastiline very long if you intend to work in epoxies; the texture and feel/resistance is very different, and you need to get used to a material that stiffens up over time... which is a good thing despite it being so hard to get used to initially This is why you work in stages, to take advantage of this property rather than fighting against it.

Although I now do quite a bit of carving myself, I'm not a fan of it as the main shaping method. Organic shapes are more easily and quickly formed working wet, so there's a clear advantage for the beginner since you get results more directly, not in a subsequent step. But you do need to know how to do both, since some carving is necessary for everyone at some point (nobody gets the shape/surface perfect every time!) and you may find you have more of an aptitude for carving than plastic sculpting.

The differences in opinion just in what's already been posted on which product to use should show how much individual mileage varies so always bear that in mind! Unfortunately there's no shortcutting one part of this: it may be necessary that you buy a couple/few things to try them out for yourself to find the material that you like best... there may be nothing wrong with the stuff that you can't get on with at the moment, it's just not suited to you (this was SuperSculpey for me when I tried it for example). Much the same with tools.

* Carving meaning all post-hardening techniques, including chipping away, paring, grinding, and all surface operations like sanding.

Einion

 

[Meehan34]

is milliput a good thing to use? I see it used a lot but have never tried it myself.