Poste-militaire Vs Pegaso! (old Vs New)

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Bugger,....... Just thrown out my favourite rug, and Long-Pipe.... Still got my own teeth though!!! Not bad for 46!

 

[housecarl]

Why? do I pay twice as much for a, Modern 2012, 'Pegaso', figure! than I pay for an 80's P/M figure, Yet the sculpting, and casting, of the latter seems much more advanced, than the former? It just seems a bit backwards.
Mark.
I would have thought as Pegaso are paying top sculptors and painters, they have to recover their investment.
Carl.

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Carl, But isn't that the question here?.... How much more money is spent on these overheads! such as Box art, Packaging, Distribution etc, rather than replacement moulds and Q/Control??... Our Belgian friend (Johan) highlighted, a very good argument about these moulds, and their longevity.

 

[Figurenfreund66]

Hi Stu

You bring to the argument of the cost of development, production and sales for the company.
These are certainly higher today than in the 1980 years of strength.
But these costs are higher than for Pegaso for "small" companies like Stormtroopers, or Moz?

Pegaso certainly has more employees, but that alone does not explain why prices rise every 6 months and have been for years!

Of course you have to cover these costs, sell a certain number of characters, but is not it better I sell 100 kits for 20, - €, over 20 kits for 35, - €?

Cheers

Hendryk

 

[stu]

Hi,

To release a figure is a juggling act,,, will it sell or will it bomb !!!!.

The usual ratio is 1 good one in four. Lets face it thats not good as one figure supports the sales of 3 others.

This may be a factor in do i remould the figure. For me with resin this is simple. I dont remould it.

Its well know the dearest figures on ebay are the hardest to find, ie those that didnt sell well.

Buying a figure early in its production will give you the best quality. The point at which i call a moulds time is difficult sometimes to call. My usual rule of thumb is what I would be happy with. if you are happy with poste militaire standard then thats difficult to match, but i've had some that werent that good also. Maybe all the ones on e bay are the good ones.

To compare a PM hussar kit to a pegaso kit is a bit daft. One is very artistic, shows movement and is a piece of art as far as a sculpture is concerned. The other is a well dressed dummy. One was crafted in the Eighties and sold a shed load, one is produced now and has a far lower sales volume. I bet you get paid a ton more now than you did in the eighties hence you pay more for your kit... Simples.

Stuart

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Stuart!. Wages, have not kept up, with the over-all annual inflation rate, for the last thirty years. So we are generally! 7k, short per-capita head! per annum, than, we where in the, eighties!.... But thats 'Bolitics',. I did note that you agree that moulds have a sell by date!........ Therefore, would you not also agree that some companies, will 'Eeek', out every last cast! they can, from these moulds, even at the cost of quality?.......... I'm not sure if it is, 'daft', to compare the two figures you mentioned, or are you advocating, that the more dynamic the figure is, the more we should expect quality issues?

 

[stu]

The more parts a kit has, the more fit issues and casting issues will happen, so those big 90mm mounted knights etc will have some issues. It is inherent with a complex kit.

It is one reason to leave as much on a piece as you can get away with, this is more apparent in resin. I can bet the masters of these knights fitted perfectly but due to being cast they have distorted somewhat, its inevitable, they are cast in white metal, its hot it will contract at differing rates.

I dont think pegaso knowingly rush out these kits and dont care if they fit properly. They probably understand that there will be issues but that these are out of there control. When you put a pile of bits together that make up a kit you cant use the same ones from the same time it was cast. I generally cast 30/40 kits they all sit mixed up in a box. I make up the kits from the mixture.

Manufacturers will always eek out as much as is possible from moulds, all companys will do this.

Stuart

 

[kagemusha]

Hi Stuart, you are in a unique position in this discussion, as you you have far greater knowledge of what is involved in making and marketing a figure. I respect that and bow to your superior understanding. What interests me in what you said above is when you personally call a moulds time and, you base that decision on whether you would be happy with it. I think that is a very honest statement to make. Given that viewpoint, how low are you prepared to go. I cannot remember having seen a figure from Stormtroopers that has received a negative review or complaint. That would either mean that your quality is consistently top notch or, your after sales service is beyond reproach. An enviable position to be in. Especially as you make the point that a ratio of 1 in 4 is quite normal for successful sales to be achieved. Seeing it from your point of view is very enlightening and has allowed me to gain a better picture of the makers standpoint. I can sort of understand your saying that PM figures were well dressed dummies compared to the dynamism of modern figures but, is that not down to the sculptor as opposed to the retailer/caster. To illustrate that point, there are a number of very animated figures in the PM catalogue sculpted by some of the best of their day, that all received the same high production values and I would guess todays sculptors would feel let down if their hard work was called into question because the casting/QC was below a certain level.

Regards

Ron

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Ron,.. Ditto!.... As my 'Dad', keeps saying! Son, never become a 'Rivet-Counter'...., (old grumps! that find a fault in just about everything) (Model railways).

 

[kagemusha]

66 67 68 6....................bugger, where was I.............. where's me bleeding slippers an crocheted rug.
46 you say Mark. Maybe I am getting old. S . . T!

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

LOL!........ No your not! If you can still make it to the 'Bog', in time your fine!... After that!............

 

[kagemusha]

That's one benchmark I don't want to reach any time soon !!!!!!!!

 

[Figurenfreund66]

Hi Stuart

That's true, of course, what you're saying, but it still fails to explain the pricing policy of Pegaso!
They produced a limited edition figure, Lionheart on horseback, on a very high price, hoping that sells at least the half of it?

What is an economy? If I want to sell a lot, I make the product more expensive? You have to be there to understand the Italians?

A cast in white metal bust costs about 43, - €, because white metal is a natural material and expensive to purchase - I understand!
The same bust in resin costs 43, - € - Resin is not a natural resource, and not expensive to purchase - I do not understand!

Cheers

Hendryk

 

[Ortigara]

Hi Stuart

That's true, of course, what you're saying, but it still fails to explain the pricing policy of Pegaso!
They produced a limited edition figure, Lionheart on horseback, on a very high price, hoping that sells at least the half of it?

What is an economy? If I want to sell a lot, I make the product more expensive? You have to be there to understand the Italians?

Actually the figure was completely sold out at Euromilitaire where it was presented, even at that very expensive price. So maybe the pricing policy set by the Italians (as you put it) was just effective.

Of course those buyers may well just have been a bunch of idiots who do not know how to spend their money and enjoy wasting it for crap products. Or maybe it's just that there are enough people around who think that Pegaso is worth what they ask for and that it perfectly stands a comparison with PM.

Best regards,

Alessandro

 

[Figurenfreund66]

Hi Allesandro

ok maybe that was not the best example, but I hope you understand what my ish?

Cheers

Hendryk

 

[old grumbler]

Pegaso and Poste Militaire cannot really be compared. Has anyone noticed that so many figures produced in the last, say 12 years hold up today? The quality of sculpting and casting is first rate. For me Poste Militaire figures always suffered from outstanding detail and poor to average lifeless anatomy. Pegaso release some truly beautiful pieces, I've bought lots and never had a problem with the castings. Figures from PM's era don't hold up too well today. In the words of Harold Macmillan "we've never had it so good" The business models are obviously different. Once Andrea and Pegaso took off Ray was toast, it was around that time PM folded.

 

[old grumbler]

... Well, I did pay my money, but several weeks and two promises later I'm still waiting for that real value ... ...

I don't think it's funny anymore; lost my sense of humour and my patience and I decided to start modelling Wingnut Wings 1/32 biplanes.

Goodbye.

Stop this sissified whining bro, suck it up and move on. Your figures probably got lost in the post. Shit happens. Moz is a totally great guy, so great in fact that many people come on this forum just to proclaim his greatness in great numbers and that's just great by me!

 

[Waterman]

Why do some think because a figure is in resin, it has got to be cheaper? Resin can be difficult to cast, more parts cast separately mean more moulds are needed, and then the rest is constant to a white metal product. I must admit, I've looked at a resin figure and thought, X amount for that? Then on reflection, sculptor needs a return, producer needs to inspect, box and package, write painting details, travel to post office, get in queue to post, petrol there and back. Heating and lighting, all this has got to be taken into account, and then on top the producer needs to put the money for all this up front in the hope that the figure will sell, and give him a return, no wonder he needs to make a profit, or he may as well work in Tescos stacking shelves at min wage. I ve never produced a figure in my life, but look at it realistically, would we all work at a loss, or just to break even? I think we are fortunate in this hobby,thanks to the people who service us, they will never become rich from us.

 

[yellowcat]

I have several Pegaso 90mm mounted and foot figures. There is no comparision between the Pegaso and Poste Militarie. The sculpting and casting of the Poste Militarie is way better than the Pegaso. The Pegaso detail is so soft. I have asked myself so many times that what if the Pegaso figures are casted by Poste Militarie it will have a completely different end product. The Poste Militarie figures are still the best today.

 

[polyphemus]

I've seen a few comments on here regarding the anatomy/stiffness etc of PM's figures. I think that the figures which prompt these comments are the 90mm Hussars, Guard Chasseurs & the Cuirassiers. At the time of the production of these (early 1980's) I remember Ray Lamb saying that part of the intention was to produce a series of standard torsos, components etc; in effect a 90mm metal version of Historex 54mm. An old Historex advertising slogan was Historexcellent & in 1985 PM used a similar when they released the Mounted Hussar with the slogan Hussarexcellent. They did produce a few conversion packs with alternative weapons etc, eg pistols around that time. This idea seemed to lapse from around 1986 when PM started to introduce sculpts from 3rd parties; Keith Durham et al. I've been surprised that this idea wasn't developed further since then.

Geoff