Sas Sgt Jailed

[sd0324]

Steve, look - I spent a hour now reading everything I could find about this online - for 2 reasons = one is I wanted more facts and second I didnt want to offend or upset people in the first place. Telegraph gives absolutely one sided view (well they are all written by same guy) and it doesnt add up in some places.
I want to think that the law and judges should be just and I choose believe that they usually are. There is a reason why judge decided this way and no one is clear what it is. If it isnt a reason good enough - the appeal will quash it in no time and fairness will be restored.
Thats the truly neutral part of my opinion.

The biased part of my opinion - is that I don't want guns on our streets. And I think that all people who bring guns/grenades etc illegaly from war zones should be held accountable by law.
If the point of our discussion got scewed and I went off the point I will hold my arms to it and say - yes - the punishment this soldier got may be extreme based on what is said in the article. I am wondering though what full facts are that justified the judges decision. Untill they are known or disclosed - I cant see how it can be said that judge is definetly wrong.

I hope this puts some explanation to my comments, I'll struggle to express it more clearly at this hour of morning.

No worries,friend it is a forum and you are entitled to your opinion. I get it and am still saddened by it.It is a sign of the times and my opinions,like myself,are getting old. Times are changing,God help us. p.s. if you saw my collection,you would pee yourself!

 

[Gaudin]

No worries,friend it is a forum and you are entitled to your opinion. I get it and am still saddened by it.It is a sign of the times and my opinions,like myself,are getting old. Times are changing,God help us. p.s. if you saw my collection,you would pee yourself!

The funny thing is - I am not afraid of guns. I used a few, familiar with a few and its not a personal like or dislike or phobia thing. I would actually be very interested to see ( and try out) your collection. Thats not the point though.

I am not jumping to defend the guy and choose more "truth will come out" approach

 

[sd0324]

The funny thing is - I am not afraid of guns. I used a few, familiar with a few and its not a personal like or dislike thing. I would actually be very interested to see your collection. Thats not the point though.

I am not jumping to defend the guy and choose more "truth will come out" approach

Good point,and taken.

 

[Martin64]

Just some thoughts from my side - not intended to offend anybody.
While I feel sympathy for the jailed member of the regiment I second Gaudin`s view on the situation and would like to add:

- being a member of military or police or else does not necessarily make yourself a hero
- if you wronged, the membership of a Special Unit does not grant privileges and rightly so!
- all aspects of an investigation that have to be reviewed by a judge normaly cannot be presented within one page in the newspapers so it is next to impossible to revise any verdict by reading the news
- being jailed as terrorist suspect in certain places of our world is most probably still different to the situation of this poor SAS chap
- legal possession of firearms is for reason restricted by laws - a war trophy can be everything but a firearm or explosives - what will happen if these kind of trophies end up one day in the wrong hands?

About myself: Not long ago a good buddy of mine was shot during a forced entry. The offender was in legal possession of a firearm btw. While I was part of a specialized international unit in an Area of Operations where nearly everybody has got (illegaly) at least one weapon hidden inside his house one high-risk operation ended up with 60 wounded and one fatal loss. It is not brought up here to show off but (hopefully) to explain my biased feelings and why I felt qualified to express my opinion.
May the appeal of the SAS Sergeant against the verdict be based on lawful reasons and finally be successful!

All the best
Martin

 

[Babelfish]

And what would you be saying if the news said: "SAS soldier hero suffering from PTSD shoots children in local school with a pistol brought from Iraq " instead?

We would of course be outraged - but that's not what happened is it? Pointless indulging in what-iffery really.

Why? Well I also possess a potentially lethal weapon. It's called a car. So "what if" - during my divorce-induced period of stress & depression some years back - I'd have got inside it and deliberately ploughed into a crowded bus-stop, killing and injuring several? You would, I'd wager, have been very annoyed and rightly so. But as I didn't do that, the question doesn't arise.

I also possess a set of very sharp and potentially lethal kitchen knives. I could have gone on a rampage with them as well (or instead of). But I didn't - so no harm done.

Now I'm not saying that gun restrictions should be abolished and we should all have guns in our houses in a wild west-style firearms free-for-all. And yes I do understand that guns are (for the most part) "illegal" while kitchen knives and cars are "legal" - even though someone killed by a knife or a car is every bit as dead as someone killed by a gun.

What I am saying is that the punishment here seems to have been way in excess of the "crime". Especially given the circumstances, and especially when you consider that people have been received lesser sentences (or been spared jail altogether) for serious crimes including firerams possession, along with drug dealing and violent assault. For a few examples see here:

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/yo...xpert____failed_to_correctly_identify_pistol/

Here ...

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2012/april/17/falconry_boss_alan_ames.aspx

Here ...

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Saf...pared-jail-for-hoarding-firearms-01112012.htm

Here ...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotti...d-jail-over-unlawful-gun-possession-1-2192603

Here ...

http://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/n...ared-jail-for-having-unlicensed-gun-1-3447292

Here ...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article3585547.ece

Here ...

http://www.safer-beds.org/rmwebportal/replytomesg.aspx?mesg_id=bd5e849b-da16-49c2-ae56-a8262d53933c&email=-1&web=-1"

And my personal favourite ...

http://swns.com/news/cross-dressing-drug-dealer-spared-jail-as-it-would-scupper-sex-change-13502/

There are plenty of other examples, but I'm sure you get the idea. Perhaps in this case some form of non-judicial or administrative punishment (fined a month's pay for example), or a suspended sentence would have been more appropriate, especially in view of the knock-on effect on the bloke's family.

Derek Bird in West Cumbria as an example didnt need much of a trigger to flip.

This isn't Derek Bird we're talking about. And this guy didn't "flip". So irrelevant really (see above).

Also - how many of these Glocks brought by our soldier hero's as a "souvenier", go to black market and end up killing people in Manchester or London?

No idea. Could be hundreds. Could be a handful. Could be none at all. Do you know?

Anyone (soldier or civilian) found out to be supplying guns on the black market should of course be hauled before the courts. But once again, that's not what happened here is it?

Jail may be extreme but judge may have had a good reason to justify it - these things arent done " because I fancy it today".

Really?? You sure about that?! Judges have it within their power to pass sentences up to a certain amount of jail time / monetary fine etc. Within those parameters they have discretion to pass sentence as they see fit, or to hand down a "suspended".

I also hope that law is same for all.

Well it's supposed to be in theory. But sadly it often isn't in practice.

- Steve

 

[Helm]

I think as well the timing of this was particularly bad with a man suspected of terrorism being released and Remembrance Sunday just past showed a distinct lack of sense. At the very outside this man should have received a suspended sentence and possibly a heavy fine, in my (admittedly biased) view he should have been found not guilty and told to be careful in the future, at most cautioned.

Steve

 

[Gaudin]

...

Well, Steve, the fact that you chose to nitpick one early post phrase by phrase and ignore what else has been said tells me that you didn't quite understand my point.

If you were interested to understand it - I would invite you to go few levels above in your thinking and chunk up rather than take it sentence by sentence - see the whole (that's not difficult- I can see other people who understood).
That is of course if you are genuinely willing to understand and I will say again - my point of view isn't opposing to what was said, it is from different perspective - its about not making categorical assumptions without knowing facts.

I also know that you just enjoy opposing me and that's OK.

Whatever way you choose to take it, I am going to stop here, at this stage at least- I already said what I felt necessary to say. Now may be the time for you to have your customary last word

 

[jenghiz]

Well said Gaudin,you bravely put forward a sensible well argued case that shows far more intelligence than the Daily Mail type headlines we are fed constantly !

 

[Babelfish]

Well, Steve, the fact that you chose to nitpick one early post phrase by phrase and ignore what else has been said tells me that you didn't quite understand my point.

I understood it perfectly well and am not "nitpicking" at all. Quite the opposite - I was responding to the salient points of your original post.

Your subsequent posts were (in a nutshell) "there may be more to this than meets the eye so let's wait and see, and I don't like the idea of lots of guns on the streets". Fine, let's do that - and neither do I. But in the meantime that doesn't negate the fact that on the face of it at least, this seems to be a VERY bad (and badly timed) decision that shows no consistency at all with the fact that a lot of people convicted of firearms possession offences don't get sent to jail (of which I linked to some examples).

I also don't share your (apparent) faith in the absolute competence, consistency and impartiality of the judicial system, or its ability to always hand down a sentence in line with the severity (or lack thereof) of the offence.

I also know that you just enjoy opposing me and that's OK.

If you say something I agree with I'll say so. If you say something I don't agree with I'll say so. It's nothing personal.

Now may be the time for you to have your customary last word

Have a good day!

- Steve

 

[Babelfish]

Well said Gaudin,you bravely put forward a sensible well argued case that shows far more intelligence than the Daily Mail type headlines we are fed constantly !

Oh dear ....

- Steve

 

[Steve]

So Gaudin, what is YOUR military history? Do you have any idea of which you speak concerning the Sergeant or are you just another liberal parroting the party line? I am sick to death of those who have been protected by those who serve expecting the servicemen to be treated like every other idiot on the planet. No one wants to see gun violence anywhere, but sticking up for that judge shows that you are part of the problem. These guys have an experience base that DEMANDS a bit of consideration. DAMN ONE GLOCK being a threat. Take his damned weapon away and tell him "bad soldier, think next time". The military ain't corporate. You don't want guns on your streets--again no one does--DON'T OWN ONE. JC on a crutch but the lily-livered get more air time than a platoon of SAS WHO HAVE DONE THE JOB. Excuse me but I have to go puke.

 

[Helm]

Or you could you know have a seperate law for the military cos that's ummm really worked well in the past hasn't it

 

[Colin_Fraser]

And enter politics! Some of our friends might want to realise that in most countries the word "liberal" is not an insult and you can call someone a socialist without attaching the word commie by implication.

My first reaction to the the story is that it is completely outrageous. I was incensed for the soldier and his family.Then I stepped back and thought about how many stories I have seen slanted, misrepresented, and flat our twisted by the print and TV media to instill a reaction and get punters to pay $ and attention. Both liberal media and the Fox News' of the world. I have come to the conclusion that I believe nothing until I hear both sides and analyze the evidence. If this story is really as one sided as it appears the soldier should be released with a resounding apology and a fat settlement. We shall see.

Colin

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

I have been following this story!..... absolutely disgusting behaviour from a clueless, 'Crusty', old, idiot judge!...... It, is worse than the reported Soldier, who sent his medals back to Cameron! who was made redundant, 72 hrs, before being able to claim his full pension!... I hate this Government! soo much!....., and how the 'Fop's', at the MOD, show their true nature! Where is the support for our 'Soldiers',??

Mark

 

[billyturnip]

And that Colin is exactly why I no longer buy a newspaper.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

And that Colin is exactly why I no longer buy a newspaper.

Me too - I throw BBC, CBC, CNN, Spiegel all in a mixing bowl and try to extract 25% truth I really don't like having folks I don't know program my brain while I pay them for the priviledge.

Colin

 

[billyturnip]

That's pretty much my method too.

 

[polyphemus]

A youth wearing typical hard case urban fashion gear runs up to an old lady, knocks her over & proceeeds to roll her around in the mud while hitting her. Your opinion of the youth?

What if I add that the old lady's coat was on fire?

Very dangerous things half truths, often more so than outright lies.

Geoff

 

[Gaudin]

So Gaudin, what is YOUR military history?

Senior Lieutenant of Medical Service (in reserve). Plenty of guts no glory, of course, and with honesty- no, thankfully haven't sniffed enough gunpowder if you know what I mean.

 

[pmfs]

This is not my concern and I´m sorry to get in to this discussion, but this is burlesque the war heroes must be honoured... this men have my respect.
UK must be proud of his war heroes and this particular court martial is ridiculous, after all, this is only a gift for his brilliant performance as soldier, is not so?
Many people bring this kind of stuff from war zones, always be like that and alway will be, nobody can stop those acts in the present or in the future...

Pedro.