Sas Sgt Jailed

[Helm]

I think as well the timing of this was particularly bad with a man suspected of terrorism being released and Remembrance Sunday just past showed a distinct lack of sense. At the very outside this man should have received a suspended sentence and possibly a heavy fine, in my (admittedly biased) view he should have been found not guilty and told to be careful in the future, at most cautioned.

Steve

 

[Gaudin]

...

Well, Steve, the fact that you chose to nitpick one early post phrase by phrase and ignore what else has been said tells me that you didn't quite understand my point.

If you were interested to understand it - I would invite you to go few levels above in your thinking and chunk up rather than take it sentence by sentence - see the whole (that's not difficult- I can see other people who understood).
That is of course if you are genuinely willing to understand and I will say again - my point of view isn't opposing to what was said, it is from different perspective - its about not making categorical assumptions without knowing facts.

I also know that you just enjoy opposing me and that's OK.

Whatever way you choose to take it, I am going to stop here, at this stage at least- I already said what I felt necessary to say. Now may be the time for you to have your customary last word

 

[jenghiz]

Well said Gaudin,you bravely put forward a sensible well argued case that shows far more intelligence than the Daily Mail type headlines we are fed constantly !

 

[Babelfish]

Well, Steve, the fact that you chose to nitpick one early post phrase by phrase and ignore what else has been said tells me that you didn't quite understand my point.

I understood it perfectly well and am not "nitpicking" at all. Quite the opposite - I was responding to the salient points of your original post.

Your subsequent posts were (in a nutshell) "there may be more to this than meets the eye so let's wait and see, and I don't like the idea of lots of guns on the streets". Fine, let's do that - and neither do I. But in the meantime that doesn't negate the fact that on the face of it at least, this seems to be a VERY bad (and badly timed) decision that shows no consistency at all with the fact that a lot of people convicted of firearms possession offences don't get sent to jail (of which I linked to some examples).

I also don't share your (apparent) faith in the absolute competence, consistency and impartiality of the judicial system, or its ability to always hand down a sentence in line with the severity (or lack thereof) of the offence.

I also know that you just enjoy opposing me and that's OK.

If you say something I agree with I'll say so. If you say something I don't agree with I'll say so. It's nothing personal.

Now may be the time for you to have your customary last word

Have a good day!

- Steve

 

[Babelfish]

Well said Gaudin,you bravely put forward a sensible well argued case that shows far more intelligence than the Daily Mail type headlines we are fed constantly !

Oh dear ....

- Steve

 

[Helm]

Or you could you know have a seperate law for the military cos that's ummm really worked well in the past hasn't it

 

[Colin_Fraser]

And enter politics! Some of our friends might want to realise that in most countries the word "liberal" is not an insult and you can call someone a socialist without attaching the word commie by implication.

My first reaction to the the story is that it is completely outrageous. I was incensed for the soldier and his family.Then I stepped back and thought about how many stories I have seen slanted, misrepresented, and flat our twisted by the print and TV media to instill a reaction and get punters to pay $ and attention. Both liberal media and the Fox News' of the world. I have come to the conclusion that I believe nothing until I hear both sides and analyze the evidence. If this story is really as one sided as it appears the soldier should be released with a resounding apology and a fat settlement. We shall see.

Colin

 

[billyturnip]

And that Colin is exactly why I no longer buy a newspaper.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

And that Colin is exactly why I no longer buy a newspaper.

Me too - I throw BBC, CBC, CNN, Spiegel all in a mixing bowl and try to extract 25% truth I really don't like having folks I don't know program my brain while I pay them for the priviledge.

Colin

 

[billyturnip]

That's pretty much my method too.

 

[Gaudin]

So Gaudin, what is YOUR military history?

Senior Lieutenant of Medical Service (in reserve). Plenty of guts no glory, of course, and with honesty- no, thankfully haven't sniffed enough gunpowder if you know what I mean.

 

[pmfs]

This is not my concern and I´m sorry to get in to this discussion, but this is burlesque the war heroes must be honoured... this men have my respect.
UK must be proud of his war heroes and this particular court martial is ridiculous, after all, this is only a gift for his brilliant performance as soldier, is not so?
Many people bring this kind of stuff from war zones, always be like that and alway will be, nobody can stop those acts in the present or in the future...

Pedro.

 

[sd0324]

Serious question here,not trying to hijack this thread,but I want to ask. Do you guys in the U.K. really feel safer and more secure not being allowed to own firearms? I am very curious about this.

 

[JonG]

Serious question here,not trying to hijack this thread,but I want to ask. Do you guys in the U.K. really feel safer and more secure not being allowed to own firearms? I am very curious about this.

Whom would we need to defend ourselves against with a gun?
If you have an issue with someone, a good all straight up fist fight will usually suffice.And no, I am not joking.If we could all pop down the high street and pick up a 9mm or a 50.cal Barrat like you can over there.....Yeah no thanks.
Most firearms over here are reworked air pistols, or shot guns.Which are usually stolen due to break ins in farms etc.
Plus we just ain't afraid of each other as much as everyone else.

 

[JonG]

No, I am just saying, thats how it would be here.
You don't see gun crime here, but knife crime.And thats bad enough, but throw in the majority legally able to own a firearm, then we would be in a much more worse state then we are now.
Guns for us would bring many, many more issues then we already have.

And for us, when one person goes and murders a group of kids with pistols, then thats enough for us to say no thanks to them.
To us, they just bring more of a problem then a solution.

 

[sd0324]

No, I am just saying, thats how it would be here.
You don't see gun crime here, but knife crime.And thats bad enough, but throw in the majority legally able to own a firearm, then we would be in a much more worse state then we are now.
Guns for us would bring many, many more issues then we already have.

And for us, when one person goes and murders a group of kids with pistols, then thats enough for us to say no thanks to them.
To us, they just bring more of a problem then a solution.

Wow,guess that answers my question.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Interestingly, Britain has always been in much more real danger of invasion than anywhere in North America. Even in 1940 they didn't hand out fireams willy nilly to civvies. While they have armed police that's the exception and I understand only where warranted by the specific situation. Seems to work. I come from a British police family and some of my uncles didn't need to have a a gun to scare the sh*t out of you.

Colin

 

[sd0324]

Interestingly, Britain has always been in much more real danger of invasion than anywhere in North America. Even in 1940 they didn't hand out fireams willy nilly to civvies. While they have armed police that's the exception and I understand only where warranted by the specific situation. Seems to work. I come from a British police family and some of my uncles didn't need to have a a gun to scare the sh*t out of you.

Colin

In 1940 I do not think Britain had enough guns to "hand out to civvies",my Great Grandfather actually sent two Springfield rifles and two S&W revolvers to Britain for their defense during a drastic call for them. I would like them back since you guys do not want them! As for the police thing....here in rural Iowa the Sherriff makes no bones about the fact he is understaffed and it may be a long time til the Deputies can arrive to help. That is why he does not mind armed free citizens.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

In 1940 I do not think Britain had enough guns to "hand out to civvies",my Great Grandfather actually sent two Springfield rifles and two S&W revolvers to Britain for their defense during a drastic call for them. I would like them back since you guys do not want them! As for the police thing....here in rural Iowa the Sherriff makes no bones about the fact he is understaffed and it may be a long time til the Deputies can arrive to help. That is why he does not mind armed free citizens.

Not us guys. I'm up here in Canada where the sit is somewhere between the US and the UK. We have some gun crime but not a lot and stats are falling over the last few years. You will find vastly different views on arming the mob up here depending on where you live, with rural and western folks generally in favour and city dwellers generally against. We don't have anything in our constitution or a powerful NRA-type org either. Given I am first generation from a UK family, and I live an urban life style, I am more comfortable with keeping the weapons in the hands of the pros.

Colin

 

[Gaudin]

There is another factor to take into account - is readiness and ability to use a gun. Without experience/psychological conditioning/readiness to kill or injure, a normal sane sensible and law abiding person will think 10-15 times about should I shouldn't I, what will be the consequences, is it ok now, am I gonna go to jail etc (bare in mind that in UK self defence law + offensive weapons laws are a bit tricky - if you carry anything (even a pencil, stack of coins in a sock) that you INTEND to use as a weapon - in theory you can be prosecuted for having offensive weapon in public) ... By then, a yob will have stamped on his head several times and left laughing, because people like that tend to act then think, they respond to adrenaline and usually don't bother processing the consequences in the moment.
So if we had guns, people who will readily use them - will be kind of people who are already using them.