Should Politics And One Sided History Lessons Be Kept Out Of Innocent Pfigure Painting Threads ?

[DEL]

Del I also agree paint what you like. However you say it would concern you the collections of genocidal maniacs ... Hitler ? My collection has alot of Germans in it, SS soldiers ( not committing war crimes or genocide I might add ) does that give you concern and how do you determine I paint these purely out of historical interest and not to celebrate their actions ?!! As you put it ? I'm all for history but again my point is keep the anti German, SS, he's a murderer comments out of threads that ask critique etc ..

I'm sure this thread is heading in the wrong direction. It's simple I'm not asking anything else, keep the crap comments out or not ?!

You're dead right Carl, the point I was trying to ,clumsily, make is that we can only judge people by their actions not by what wee soldiers they paint. Can I also apologise if you thought I was referring to you individually, I know nothing of your collection (other than what you post) or interests or indeed what you celebrate. My concern is purely on an abstract and philosophical level.
Basically if a painter likes painting black leather and/or is interested in WWII then go for it and let the rest of us confine our comments to technical matters....it was a yes vote from me

 

[Colin_Fraser]

And one other thing - when it's obvious that someone is communicating in other than their first language, might I suggest that one gives them the benefit of the doubt when their tone may seem to be a little bit "off." That would cool things off.

Colin

 

[Mark S]

What?!!?...I'm in the muppet class, how dare you sir! I challenge you to a duel at dawn,........gonzos at ten paces.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

If this is the muppet show, I invite all sane folk to repair to the balcony to hang with Statler and Waldorf.

Colin

 

[Carlos69]

Colin that's exactly what I was asking. Is it appropriate for one to ask for critique and get knocked for subject etc .. Not history and politics being related just this. And 9 times out of 10 it isn't a bust of Himmler but just a soldier in SS camo or Che or Peiper etc etc ..

 

[DEL]

+ you should!nt need much reference on the Mongol front ? Let me know if you get stuck there's a few here who could help

Now that is personally insulting....in fact it's an apalling comment to post on a forum where you have no idea of my personal circumstances

 

[Carlos69]

Del no worrys, thanks. One to many festive snow balls ..

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Colin that's exactly what I was asking. Is it appropriate for one to ask for critique and get knocked for subject etc .. Not history and politics being related just this. And 9 times out of 10 it isn't a bust of Himmler but just a soldier in SS camo or Che or Peiper etc etc ..

I think if you paint personalities you have to be able to defend your choice. Doing an anonymous SS man should not be a reason to be chastised - many were conscripts. Most of the comments I see re. SS figures are of the "boring" type rather than from people who are incensed. But if you are doing a personality, I think there is a presumption that you either admire the person or are otherwise fascinated by them. That's what attracts the incoming if they are controversial.

Colin

 

[Carlos69]

Del get a GSOH !

 

[Mark S]

Del get a GSOH !

Pots and black kettles come to mind.

 

[Johan]

... Here comes a moderator for this debate : the Bad Idea Chick !

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Well done Johan - now we will have the Moral Majority weighing in along with the politicians.

Colin

 

[Carlos69]

If you cannot answer the question in the poll why post ? It is not a debate about painting dodgy characters but the comments these figures get when the sculptor/painter asks only for critique.

I know many painters who have painted Hitler etc .. But they are not doing so to big hitler up or to give a nod to his politics etc ... It's just a figure to paint ! I'm not sure if you sculpt Che or Jack the Ripper you admire them by doing so .... SERIOUSLY is that what people think ?

I best start painting sci-fi again ...

Maybe new posts can just reply to the original and only question ? Or vote.

 

[Mark S]

...
........I best start painting sci-fi again ...

Just make sure you don't paint that evil Darth Vader, I don't like him.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

I know many painters who have painted Hitler etc .. But they are not doing so to big hitler up or to give a nod to his politics etc ... It's just a figure to paint ! I'm not sure if you sculpt Che or Jack the Ripper you admire them by doing so .... SERIOUSLY is that what people think ?

That's what I think. I try not to judge but if you paint Hitler, my reaction is that it isn't just to practice your brown. When I do a personality I am motivated by admiration or fascination. As that is what motivates me, I PRESUME its the same with others. Note that I say "presume."

Colin

 

[Carlos69]

Colin sorry I don't agree with that. I paint figures that I admire, I paint figures that I do not admire. The figures I paint that I do not admire could be anybody. BUT they will generally have something about them ( in the resin ) that appeals, ie. many textures, a colourful paint option etc etc ... I paint Germans because I like painting Field grey. If a bust comes out of Hitler and he's in field grey I'm painting him, I don't admire him. So "Presume" is a good word. After all, your theory of more than practice is poor in my view.

I did shave my head actually not so long back ....

 

[Johan]

That's what I think. I try not to judge but if you paint Hitler, my reaction is that it isn't just to practice your brown. When I do a personality I am motivated by admiration or fascination. As that is what motivates me, I PRESUME its the same with others. Note that I say "presume."

Colin

Colin, I understand your point is that you like to paint a figure or bust of a historical personality that you admire. But how about for example a sort of charicatural representation of someone you don't admire ? fe. Hitler or Stalin ?
I personally feel a lot depends on the story you want to tell with your miniature; I would disapprove of a miniature with which the painter wants to sort of glorify Hitler or another vilain : a while ago there was a Heydrich figure on this forum which was put on a base with a Jude star under his feet, and I did critisize it strongly because I felt it was cheap and base representing him trampling a jew star. However, I would think that fe a Göring figure next to a spitfire model with caption "our new aircraft herr reichsmarshall" would be quite innocent ... What do you think ?

 

[Alex M.]

I don't generally weigh in on conversations like this, and the point of the whole thread has gotten muddled between page 1 and 3 and native speakers and not. I like coming on this forum to look at people's work, offer help/critique where I can. I abhor having to trawl through pages of often intentionally argumentative political blathering just to see what people have to say about the WORK on display. I've voted, only because I'd like to see that disappear. It's growing very tiresome of someone posting their work on *say* the latest Waffen bust from Pegaso, only to see thoroughly constructive criticism like "Too bad it's another German." Thanks pals, that helps my technique out thoroughly.

Let sleeping dogs lie, keep politics out of WIP/Vbench/Display work threads, and get back to painting some models, whatever models you want, since you bought em with your money, and paint them with your paint.

Just my fat nickel dropping the dime on this thread.

 

[old grumbler]

I think we all get taken in by 'history' or what passes for it, narratives that are propaganda, brainwashing, agendas etc I was as a kid told over and over that the Battle of Britain actually saved the country. Then later saw an interview with Adolf Galland who candidly admitted what was becoming more obvious as the years passed that it was just a diversion! Never serious! get a load of that! This hobby is centered around history and used to have a lot of historians participate although now I think it's mainly people who just enjoy figure painting which is good. I think there's room here though for a separate thread on historical reference opinions and argument. Let's be passionate about discussing figures and all aspects of history and have free expression wherever it ends up.

 

[T50]

okay, guys...
breath in, breath out.... now breath in...... and... breath out...
My vote goes to YES.

Seriously, is there a single military from any country that is "innocent"?
If there is, no one wants to build figures of it because it sucks.
If there isn't, why do we have to be extra PC about certain subject?
Why should WW2 German/Nazis get singled out all the time?
Killing a group of people is more serious than killing others?