Why can't we all just get along?

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Colin_Fraser

Colin_Fraser

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Joined
Feb 1, 2004
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In a thread by Rompy on what to see and visit in Canada including figure shows, we got rather off track in discussing the local club and the enduring schism between toy soldier painters/collectors and the sort of work we see here on PF....known locally as connoisseur figures. There were some exchanges on the history and rationale for the two groups' inability to get along and coexist. One commenter noted that similar hobby schisms exist between fantasy and historical, or planes and cars, or wargaming and large scale etc etc etc. As we totally hijacked poor Rompy's string, I undertook to move they discussion here.

Colin
 
Funny as most modellers have done other things before ending up where they are at the moment.

Like most people on here, I did the usual tanks & planes as a kid, but when I picked up the hobby again in the early 90s, after I invented booze and women, I started off with Tamiya WWII stuff, but alayws paid more attention to the figures....hence I ended up here.
 
I started with Aurora monsters, did a few funny cars in my teens and went direct to figures. I expect my background is a lot more figure pure than many. I will admit to not "getting" the toy soldier thing. A band of Britains leaves me cold. I don't condemn that part if the hobby but it holds no interest for me ....I guess there is a wee bit common interest in military history but that is likely all. I don't think there is much I can learn from the toy side as the methods and materials are so different. I don't mind sharing a show with them though. I feel similarly about most fantasy although in that case I see more painting and sculpting skill than I could ever possibly learn.

Colin
 
I really like the fact that there are all sorts of models for every taste.
I particularly like that there are so many styles of painting each with their own merit and I enjoy looking at well painted 'toy' soldiers as well as 'connoisseur' pieces.
At a recent show I attended there was a highly colourful display of mainly Napoleonic figures. These were painted in a unique style that cleverly blended toy soldier painting with realistic techniques. At first I couldn't understand why it was there but then began to note the quality of the painting and realised it was there on merit.
It's not something I would try to replicate but I did enjoy examining the work.
Derek
 
Have to say here that I appreciate both - and enjoy them for different reasons. I have never really thought of them as being from two worlds existing apart as they're all part of what interests me and I guess thats most important thing. Shame to hear about some division around this.
Cheers
Mat
 
A single glossy painted 'toy soldier' can leave you wondering what's the point of that, but when you see a display cabinet full of hundreds of pieces their purpose becomes clear as they are just as impressive as a small collection of display figures.
The obvious difference between the traditional toy soldier and our display pieces is they are painted to be handled and displayed in huge numbers.

There is though a new trend which is becoming established in modelling circles which I don't mind saying gives me the $hIt$ and that's Battle Barbie's.
Sorry but I don't get it.........and in the last model competition I entered my 200mm painted figure was judged in the same section as a bunch of GI-Joe's with little velcro jackets and pants on.
I'm afraid I cannot see how Battle Barbie's with their awkwardly held plastic weapons and dolly stares share any of the features of a well painted display figure.
 
While that isn't my 'thing' I like to think I could appreciate the time and effort spent and respect the enthusiasm that someone has for what they do. I'm sure part of my live and let live attitude has come about from picking up on vibes I get sometimes when I let on what I do to people outside of the hobby! I think it's difficult to understand the motivation and enjoyment if you're not 'on the inside'.

That said Mark - it does seem wrong for competitions to be comparing apples with oranges as you described above. That can't have been a good moment at all.

Cheers
Mat
 
Well, while we here on PF may get all wired up on the differences and schisms between historical miniatures, fantasy, busts, or collector's figures, the rest of humanity, including my wife, bunches us all together as 'toy soldier nerds', so I'd say let's just get along, be surprised by other 'branches' and try and learn from them.

Cheers,
Adrian
 
Sorry,but don't know where this worm got started but I got into PF because I believe it represents "Art";by that I mean sculpture and painting on a mostly miniature scale.I know there are the scale model (rivet counters),doll sculptors,gamers,wood carvers,or whatever;...done most of them and they all have their place.
Just hope PF grows but stays the same.
Hopefully I stated by opinion in a gentle way,otherwise,sorry....Best Regards to all.........Wayne
 
Mark S said:
A single glossy painted 'toy soldier' can leave you wondering what's the point of that, but when you see a display cabinet full of hundreds of pieces their purpose becomes clear as they are just as impressive as a small collection of display figures.
The obvious difference between the traditional toy soldier and our display pieces is they are painted to be handled and displayed in huge numbers.

There is though a new trend which is becoming established in modelling circles which I don't mind saying gives me the $hIt$ and that's Battle Barbie's.
Sorry but I don't get it.........and in the last model competition I entered my 200mm painted figure was judged in the same section as a bunch of GI-Joe's with little velcro jackets and pants on.
I'm afraid I cannot see how Battle Barbie's with their awkwardly held plastic weapons and dolly stares share any of the features of a well painted display figure.
Click to expand...

Certainly sounds like some extra classes needed for that one Mark. I think most competitions have a collectors' class that would take your barbies. The difficulty comes when someone has either sculpted or paintedvthe head and perhaps sewn the clothes.....i.e. done a lot of creative work. Not sure how I would class that. Sounds like an argument for the Chicago judging system where entries are not judged against each other.

Colin
 
Sculpt a figure = Art. Paint a figure on canvas = Art. Sculpt a figure and then paint it = 'toy soldier'. Fortunately the degree of artistry on show in Eastern Europe results in an apparently more artistic view of painted miniatures.

Mike
 
I can't say I've ever come across this division. I find that people who make anything,whether it be furniture or jewelry, appreciate the time and effort that is put into something.
Although railway modelers............ just kidding!:D
Martin
 
I sculpt for a collectors company, as did Martin. I can say it is the best apprenticeship I ever did. It allows me to pay for sculpts for CGS by the best, I cast. I learn how to improve. I was an ok sculptor before but what took me a year I can do now for what id needed in a week or so. It taught me professional deadlines which I carry over to my own CGS. Anything that is improving a skill is learning and only the tunnelled people will disagree. Funny thing I can't afford to buy what I sculpt :) but I wouldn't want to :)
What comes back after production is completely different to what is sculpted but to me I still sculpt it the best I can, it is just unfortunate the metal process and mass production painting lessens it but I don't treat that as an excuse. Fortunately the resins come back nice :) when I sculpt for the figure market, which I am now, the quality is just the same but with a string of 100 practise figures and lessons behind me.
To most sculptors or professional painters it is providing and fulfilling what the client wants. There are many that one day are sculpting toy action figures, then hobby figures and then for private collectors. The true talent is the diversity you can do and that is where the money is
 
I agree Graham, I actually still make a few ranges of so called "toy" figures. Obviously there is a limit to what people will pay so there has to be a limit on the amount of time they can be painted but the master sculpt is exactly the same.
I am tempted to make something in 120 mm if only to give people a chance to find fault!:)

Martin
 
I think the answer to the question is: Yes, we can! ;) When I discovered the fascination of Miniatures as a kid I became transfixed on toy soldiers my father and grandfather had played with. Then came Airfix...and their very nice Collectors and Multipose Series. While today my old toy soldiers are just a memory from childhood days and my interest is focussed on historical miniatures I appreciate the vast array of poses and "diorama ideas" when looking at today´s toy soldiers.
While I feel no need to get more involved in other aspects of the hobby toy soldiers, fantasy etc is just another side of the same medal IMHO.
Cheers, Martin
 
montythefirst said:
I started with Games workshop stuff, that I badged my dad to get me back in 1990 never played the game just built the figures, then moved to 1/35 scale tanks and figures then moved to just figures in that scale and then figures in larger scale. I think most model makers on this site will have a similar timeline
Click to expand...

Yep, that's me that is! Got back into models through War hammer with my son, painting minitures for him & carried on...:)
Mark D
 

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