WIP 1/16 "Tiger In Wait" 321 .SS.Pz.Abt.101 Normandy 1944

[Steve Ski]

Uhhhhh........................, that's a big base Dave.:thumb down: Did you build a new cabinet to store this beast?

Cheers, Ski.

 

[JasonB]

I think he will just add legs to the base and consider it a table top diorama. Dining room table, that is!

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Dave
you have the idea right for the random bond ,but watch the "jumpers"
they need to be longer than high and don't make a continues vertical joint at
the jumper, cross bond with a longer stone,try and keep your stone gauges
to 3 6 and 9 inch height's that way you will always be able to come back to
a level bed, you could add 5 and 4 as well bringing you back to 9.
what you are showing at the moment is a stone style common in Italy and
Spain, but that may be ok as I don't know which theatre off war you are in.

A picky of me but you are making such brilliant job of the tank so could be worth the change if you haven't gone to far.

Ronald

PS use the 9inch as a jumper, 9x18 inch min you could go a bit longer

 

[Dr Force]

Ha ha very good guys!!

Ronald, thanks for the input, The stonework is becoming a bit too complex let alone matching it with the region The title gives a bit of a clue as in Normandy France and it is a fictional church so not sure untrained eyes will point out that particular stone pattern belongs to Italy or Spain.

You have thrown a bit of a spanner in the works as I am no builder or stonework specialist like yourself so construction is proving difficult.

Not sure now whether to stick or bust and go with my original common brick design...........opinions please befor I go any further

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Thought this might help

 

[kagemusha]

Hi Dave, these are Normandy churches. Hope they help a little. Really get a good idea of scale with the figure. Wow ! Hope you live on the ground floor mate.

Cheers

Ron

 

[Dr Force]

Arrrrghhhh start again??? It's only cork and board and I'm not comfortable with it, and I need to have all of it 100% frustrating but it's back to the drawing board.

I think I will draw it on and post for views before adding the cork next time, what do ya reckon fella's???

 

[kagemusha]

Dave, I understand you think styrene sheet is too light, but why not have a play at carving a sheet to get the 'feel' before attacking with individual cork 'stones. It helps me get a perspective. Right now I am working on an arch/doorway to compliment the Scale75 elf, and it has helped to relieve some of the stress in striving to get it exactly right. Stick with what works for you tho mate. Hope the pics did not upset your vision. That was not my intention.

Regards

Ron

Ron

 

[Dr Force]

Hi Ron

your input is absolutely essential matey, no way have you or anybody else upset me or my vision, you are all trying to make it better which is why I like the critique and guidance.

I am going with Ronalds helpful sketch as he is the expert and is helping me appreciate authenticity rather than simply making it look like a church.

Honestly mate, what you have provided in this thread has been fantastic, please do not think I find anything offensive.

I'm going to draw the whole lot on the board and will post up new pics for Ronald et al to hit the approval box.

Thanks mate
Dave

 

[JasonB]

Hi Dave,
If I may. I know the church will be a big part of the scene (literally and figuratively) but the focus is still the Tiger and the figs. Perhaps getting a bit bogged down in the finer points of masonry and architecture isn't the best thing, especially since 99.9 percent of the people that ever view the finished piece won't notice, won't know, or won't care about the specific stone pattern you use for the church. There is no problem with you simplifying it a bit to make more "doable", considering it won't detract from the scene at all, and isn't the focal point. I just don't want you to get bogged down in the minutia...well, unless of course thats what you want to be doing. If so, then onward and upward! BTW, have you ever considered making buildings by carving them from Balsa foam? Take a look
http://www.elladan.de/032 WW II ruined building 1/032.htm

http://www.modelarmour.com/index.ph...obbled-base&catid=35:build-features&Itemid=59

 

[Dr Force]

Hi Jay

I absolutely agree with you, it's easy to get carried away and frustrated with the detail, but you know when it does not feel right you just need to have another go, well that is where I am at, so I'm back to my blank canvas.

If you look at the building in isloation then that is all you see but once that Tiger, 5 figures, internal detail and all the rubble is in, there is not a cat in hell's chance of someone saying " you know what that's a Spanish church in Normandy", however if you are going foras authentic as possible (and the Tiger over 2 months reflects that , then why not go the whole hog and research it properly?

Ronald has given me the idea and luckily I am going to France this weekend so will find a couple of churches and photograph them to death, re-draw and then put the cork on again.

I have some foam board mate, it's great stuff but I prefer the cork method, more time consuming but gives better results IMO.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Hi Dave
don't get to hung up on the stone work what you have done so far is good the points I made are just technical the thing about church stone work is they were the only organizations predominately who could afford top quality masons,
what you tend to get is a smooth stone finish inside and a rough hewn outside
the smooth finish called Ashler has a very tight bed and joint 6mm,but keep going as you have, as it looks fine and the cork idea is a great innovation I will use that at some time also,the best thing to do with stone work is follow a couple of rule of thumbs IE horizontal beds not longer than 1500mm vertical joints no higher than 300mm and just fill the rest randomly no small stone under 100mm
AS I say what you have done is good and when all weathered who the hell will know any different.
sorry for the confusion

Ronald

 

[Dr Force]

Hi Ronald

Thanks for your continued input.

I have settled on a smooth finish on a .5mm bed (8mm/16) for the inside using the design recommended and a variance in size of no more than 5 shapes, but the outside will be a rough, almost random stone as seen on most churches.

I will draw and plan it all out first using the rule of thumb with vertical and horizontal lines, it's not easy and there will be the odd flaw but given the assessment in previous posts I am not too fussed about that.

The thickness works out at around 26mm which scales to 416mm in 1/16 so about spot on.

Thanks
Dave

 

[chippy]

Dave I'm glad you have abandond your first attempt at stone work , it was starting to look like Bradstone (that's blockwork with a false stone effect on the front surface used on modern housing ) I think the most important thing you need to establish is the colour of the stone in the area you are locating it in . Stone varies a great deal in colour in just over just a few miles, for instance my home is a hard cold grey limestone but 20 miles away in Bath they have a nice soft warm sandstone . As most buildings of the era you are planning heavy items like stone would have come from the nearest quarry . An easy way to find out would be to use Google Earth .
Search the area you want and then go to street level and look at some of the older buildings this will give you a good idea what the colour and construction of the stone needs to be .
chippy
ps thanks for your kind words about the base

 

[Dr Force]

Hi Chippy

Yes 100% agree, which is why I felt the need to change!

Colour is a key factor, I am going for that cold grey look rather than sandstone, i also think this will help the stained glass stand out more.

I'll email you shortly about the base mate..........quality stuff.

Dave

 

[Dr Force]

Hi

Bit of time away from the bench as I had a little holiday in France which gave me the opportunity to study some Church stone work.

I walked around and photographed several, which all had a common theme of a smooth quite detailed finish on the inside with rough blockwork or random stone effect on the outside.

I studied the blockwork in some detail and noticed some slightly misplaced blocks and also variable thickness of mortar lines. I also need to bear in mind that this has been heavily bombed so the solid walls that remained will still show a tad of movement.

The idea is not to get each line and block absolutely perfect, because they simply are not in reality.

I have also considered the detail which tended to be on the first few courses or very high up, ranging from simple lines to complex masonary so I will have a go at combining the two.

I am now better prepared and so have begun the tedious task of adding the cork having scrapped the previous attempt. I am so far pleased with the results and well on the way:-

 

[kagemusha]

Hi Dave, glad you have returned and resolved your issues with the stonework mate.
Latest pics show an obvious return to form. That window sill is gorgeous and the lower courses are superb. Up and running again.

Cheers

Ron

 

[housecarl]

That looks the business now Dave, you trip to France obviously bore fruit.
Carl.

 

[Steve Ski]

Yes I do like the trimmed window sill and the graduated stepping, gonna look great when the mud goes on it. Very good so far Dave.


Cheers, Ski.

 

[Dr Force]

Ron, Carl & Ski, thank you for your comments.

I will crack on with the rest now and as per previous post's, I will be adding some more intricate trim to the window as it has to be stone.

Cheers
Dave