Has PF become boring?

[Wayneb]

Well said Chris.....What more can be offered than honesty....My question was asked not to cause a dispute but just an honest question asked for an honest opinion....And for your information, yes you are from down under but I am from down under too as there are no clubs or any groups around me that paint miniatures; at least that I know of; But that's no big deal for me as I've always marched to my own drummer....Anyway; honest opinions are always appreciated.

Wayne

 

[grasshopper]

Along with Christ I have to say PF has become less interesting ...perhaps the root cause is rise of social media such that many have their own sources and groups, with some of the remaining who effectively use PF as their FB...the high five stuff that tends to frustrate those of us not in the immediate Uk scene..the reviews are useful and some of the product announcements, and the SBS stuff by Phil, Ron et al...
but the display of Wip and finished work is overweighted with the high fives...as well, the overall theme is on historical stuff..to the relative exclusion of fantasy and sci fi...themes possibly attracting youth and skill over old age ...
However it’s unfolding while I scan the site several times a day, there is less and less of real note.

 

[Graham]

I will put my thoughts on this from the perspective of a novice painter but as someone who has been on and off PF for a few years now.

I do think the comments about social media diluting forms like this is true. This goes for many modelling forums I have been on over the years. People post for various reasons but if the desire is just for recognition and, possibly, self promoting for possible commissions etc, forums like this may no longer be the place to do it.

The comments made about the amount of ‘great work’ etc in the VBench and completed may be justified. However, there is also a critique area for people to post in should they want a more structured response. I am painfully aware that if I posted in there, I may get honest feedback but I also know that, for me personally, that would be counter productive.

The high fives I get don’t make me think I am a great painter, I know I am not. What they do though is keep me motivated and keep me striving to improve to the point wher I can post in the critique forum and be able to learn from the more ‘honest’ feedback I would get.

As for forums featuring progress and completed work depicting mainly historical subjects. Well, it isn’t the forum that dictates the content, it is the members. The reason that there is not so much fantasy is that people who paint it are not posting it. Why that is, I don’t know but it certainly isn’t PF that dictates what they can or cannot post. I think there is probably more fantasy related forums about that attracts the fantasy painters to them. Instagram is heavily biased in content to fantasy as I have discovered recently. When I first started on PF, it was predominantly Napoleonic, or that is how it appeared to me. I think there is more of a variety now but certainly, fantasy is not featured that much in the members painting as much as it is in the new product announcements.

There are many things I do not comment on as I often feel that I am not qualified to comment. It could be that the subject matter is of no interest to me or it could be that I, personally, do not like/appreciate the style. In either case if I did comment, would it be constructive or relevant? Me not liking or understanding something does not make it bad or wrong but it could come across like that if I gave ‘honest’ feedback on something. So, for me, there is a certain amount of not commenting for fear of offending someone just because I do not appreciate it the way they do.

I really appreciate the comments I get as they keep me striving to improve. If I was totally shot down with pure honesty every time I posted, I would just stop posting and possibly stop painting. One day, hopefully, I will get better and that will be down to the support I get on here. I realise that for someone who is at the top of their painting game, this may not be enough.

So, the content is simply down to the active members, that is always going to be the case no matter what forum you are on.

 

[mick3272]

I will put my thoughts on this from the perspective of a novice painter but as someone who has been on and off PF for a few years now.

I do think the comments about social media diluting forms like this is true. This goes for many modelling forums I have been on over the years. People post for various reasons but if the desire is just for recognition and, possibly, self promoting for possible commissions etc, forums like this may no longer be the place to do it.

The comments made about the amount of ‘great work’ etc in the VBench and completed may be justified. However, there is also a critique area for people to post in should they want a more structured response. I am painfully aware that if I posted in there, I may get honest feedback but I also know that, for me personally, that would be counter productive.

The high fives I get don’t make me think I am a great painter, I know I am not. What they do though is keep me motivated and keep me striving to improve to the point wher I can post in the critique forum and be able to learn from the more ‘honest’ feedback I would get.

As for forums featuring progress and completed work depicting mainly historical subjects. Well, it isn’t the forum that dictates the content, it is the members. The reason that there is not so much fantasy is that people who paint it are not posting it. Why that is, I don’t know but it certainly isn’t PF that dictates what they can or cannot post. I think there is probably more fantasy related forums about that attracts the fantasy painters to them. Instagram is heavily biased in content to fantasy as I have discovered recently. When I first started on PF, it was predominantly Napoleonic, or that is how it appeared to me. I think there is more of a variety now but certainly, fantasy is not featured that much in the members painting as much as it is in the new product announcements.

There are many things I do not comment on as I often feel that I am not qualified to comment. It could be that the subject matter is of no interest to me or it could be that I, personally, do not like/appreciate the style. In either case if I did comment, would it be constructive or relevant? Me not liking or understanding something does not make it bad or wrong but it could come across like that if I gave ‘honest’ feedback on something. So, for me, there is a certain amount of not commenting for fear of offending someone just because I do not appreciate it the way they do.

I really appreciate the comments I get as they keep me striving to improve. If I was totally shot down with pure honesty every time I posted, I would just stop posting and possibly stop painting. One day, hopefully, I will get better and that will be down to the support I get on here. I realise that for someone who is at the top of their painting game, this may not be enough.

So, the content is simply down to the active members, that is always going to be the case no matter what forum you are on.

Very balanced
and honest.
Mick
Does that count as a high five

 

[grasshopper]

Definitely worth a high five..

If there is a nut to be cracked: the impact of social media is surely one big one...for my part, I’ve always felt The narrow friending approach of social media makes one a bit limited and closed from new ideas..that’s where a PF remains valid..

I must ertainly would hope that posting, commenting is not the sole domain of highly skilled artists..rather we all have a considered voice..sometimes based on artistic eye, design sense...few of us are true pros..making a sole living ...

I’d like to see some standard set of review parameters..still allowing plenty of scope and freedom, I’d like more SBS ...and SBS from a wide range..

And I’d like to see more diversity in subject...

 

[mick3272]

At the end of the day it is yours and my forum.
We will only get out of it what we collectively put into it.
mick

 

[Graham]

TwittFaceAgramIntrest is often seen as ‘The Social Media’ but I am old enough to remember when forums like this WAS the only social media on the tinterweb, I believe they were commonly known as ‘bulletin boards’ back in the day so we don’t have a nut to crack, we have to reclaim our heritage. On here you can make virtual friends, many have done that and turned them into real friendships even if only within the confines of the hobby. On Facebook, all you have to do is accept a ‘friend’ request. On here, it takes a bit more effort

It is right to say that posting comments, reviews, SBS etc is not the reserve of the top painters and artists, maybe it is just a case of gaining the confidence and taking the leap of faith to write something.

If everyone contributing to this thread would take that leap of faith and write something, maybe we could inject ourselves back into the reason this forum was setup. After all, we are only contributing to this thread because we care aren’t we?

So I am willing (if maybe not able) to give it a go, anyone else willing to give it a shot?

 

[grasshopper]

Count me in...

 

[kagemusha]

If I may.....I have been a member for a number of years now....have left twice and come back.
Over the last two years life has been nothing less than a bitch....as it has for a number of members.
I often look back to what I describe as the 'golden' years....when the perceived atmosphere was much more friendly and supportive....which is not to say it isn't like that now....it just feels different.
I would say that today's so called 'social' media way of life has played a big part in my perception of how PF has changed....and I think the 'stormy' period that PF went through a while back...led to a number of members seeking out the safe haven of such sites (Facebook etc.).
In certain aspects....it seems to benefit manufacturers better as a shop front than PF did/does.
In my time here...I have posted some reviews...a number of SBS's (my favourite aspect of PF)....and shown a number of techniques....all of which have been met with genuine appreciation by the members.
It is my firm belief that some of the reviews are heavily biased in favour of certain manufacturers....and let me make it clear right now....this comment is not aimed at any individual reviewer.
In all honesty...I strongly believe that many refrain from speaking their minds....simply to comply with societies 'politically correct' boundaries...that life today forces upon us.
I very much like the new 'Tools and Accessories' section....and would suggest another section on 'Techniques' would be advantageous to all.
My biggest regret is that very few...if any...of the so called 'Masters' (Professionals) are ever willing to share their knowledge with the rest of us...after all...it is people like us...who offered our genuine praise for their efforts and skills....and effectively put them at the top of the tree.
So...is PF boring?...I think it is simply a matter of how we each perceive what we do or do not see now.....compared to past times....and what we each would like it to be in reality if we could combine the best of each.

These are my personal and genuine thoughts based on the question Wayne asked.

Regards

Ron

 

[Graham]

Cannot argue with any of that Ron, even if I wanted to

 

[grasshopper]

Kagemusha, you nailed it ...I for one am the beneficiary the generosity of experience and knowledge and time Ron refers to..its priceless. And would never have happened but for PF. What began as a simple act of generosity has blossomed into friendship...of the sort that’s way beyond “likes” and “friending”.

Grasshopper

 

[kagemusha]

Cannot argue with any of that Ron, even if I wanted to

Ever the diplomat mate

 

[grasshopper]

Graham, I put up a little thing to the tools of the trade heading...I can’t add anything to Ron’s sbs on oils from way back...other than to say the approach works...would be interesting to learn of other unorthodox methods and tips...

 

[Chrisr]

I for one am the beneficiary the generosity of experience and knowledge and time Ron refers to..its priceless.

Me too. The generosity and advice of more talented painters than me has improved my painting enormously, well let's say for the better as I still have a way to go, for which I am most grateful.

My biggest regret is that very few...if any...of the so called 'Masters' (Professionals) are ever willing to share their knowledge with the rest of us...

I agree to some extent Ron, although I thought you were a 'Professional' or 'Master Painter' - IIRC you are no slouch in the painting department. Nonetheless, some of our very talented painters have provided advice - they may not be 'Professional' but they are certainly well up there in the Master Class.

For me I get just as much benefit from the 'hobbyists', whatever standard they are, who share their techniques, painting mixes, etc with novices like me. I have learn't a good deal from them, and it is through PF I have done so. Just looking at completed figures gives one ideas of how to do something. I'll never be a Master but its just being able to paint figures, and improving through interaction with the PF community that makes it enjoyable, interesting, and inspiring for me.

Regards
Chris

 

[kagemusha]

Me too. The generosity and advice of more talented painters than me has improved my painting enormously, well let's say for the better as I still have a way to go, for which I am most grateful.




I agree to some extent Ron, although I thought you were a 'Professional' or 'Master Painter' - IIRC you are no slouch in the painting department. Nonetheless, some of our very talented painters have provided advice - they may not be 'Professional' but they are certainly well up there in the Master Class.

For me I get just as much benefit from the 'hobbyists', whatever standard they are, who share their techniques, painting mixes, etc with novices like me. I have learn't a good deal from them, and it is through PF I have done so. Just looking at completed figures gives one ideas of how to do something. I'll never be a Master but its just being able to paint figures, and improving through interaction with the PF community that makes it enjoyable, interesting, and inspiring for me.

Regards
Chris

All good points Chris.
As for me being a 'Professional/Master'....far from it....but appreciate the comment and thought.
I agree that there is a lot we can learn from each other........my point regarding the pro's is simply that they hold knowledge on a level that most of us will never attain...so call it envy if you like.
Personally....I feel the sharing of knowledge...and passing on of skills....is paramount to the survival of our hobby.
Maybe it's my age...but...I can't help feeling as I did when I retired....when I am gone...all my knowledge and skills go with me....and that is such a waste.
It is in this respect that I offer the idea of more sub forums....along the lines of the 'Tools'....such as 'Basing/Mounting (to include 'Groundwork')....'Paints and Colour Mixing'.....'Effects' to include water/rust/snow etc.
My reasoning is this....with these 'sub forums' in place....it gives members an archive of all the elements needed to produce a piece from start to finish.
It is in creating this 'Archive'....that we remove the 'boredom' of searching the whole forum for that much needed answer to a question we may have.

Just some thoughts.

Ron

 

[Graham]

All good points Chris.
As for me being a 'Professional/Master'....far from it....but appreciate the comment and thought.
I agree that there is a lot we can learn from each other........my point regarding the pro's is simply that they hold knowledge on a level that most of us will never attain...so call it envy if you like.
Personally....I feel the sharing of knowledge...and passing on of skills....is paramount to the survival of our hobby.
Maybe it's my age...but...I can't help feeling as I did when I retired....when I am gone...all my knowledge and skills go with me....and that is such a waste.
It is in this respect that I offer the idea of more sub forums....along the lines of the 'Tools'....such as 'Basing/Mounting (to include 'Groundwork')....'Paints and Colour Mixing'.....'Effects' to include water/rust/snow etc.
My reasoning is this....with these 'sub forums' in place....it gives members an archive of all the elements needed to produce a piece from start to finish.
It is in creating this 'Archive'....that we remove the 'boredom' of searching the whole forum for that much needed answer to a question we may have.

Just some thoughts.

Ron

I agree about the sections for ‘how to’ subjects. PF is a massive resource and that is one of its problems especially for novices and newcomers who may not know the right keywords to search with if they are unfamiliar with the subject. I know this from experience. I have often searched for things to no avail only to find it later by accident. This is not a fault of PF but my lack of knowledge how to word the search correctly.

 

[Chrisr]

I agree about the sections for ‘how to’ subjects. PF is a massive resource and that is one of its problems especially for novices and newcomers who may not know the right keywords to search with if they are unfamiliar with the subject. I know this from experience. I have often searched for things to no avail only to find it later by accident. This is not a fault of PF but my lack of knowledge how to word the search correctly.

If that's seconding Ron's suggestion, I third it. Initially I thought Painting Techniques, Sculpting, and Groundwork covered his techniques suggestion, but introducing sub-forums under each along the lines Ron has outlined above would certainly make finding information a lot easier. Given there is now so much information in each of these forums, I also have difficulty tracking down something I wish to find out about. Its the reason I suggested the Tools of the Trade /Accessories Forum which Nap and pwadm kindly agreed to trial

I know this may a burden for Admin but Nap and pwadm - is the creation of sub forums a possibility? The exchange of information is the real power of this forum.

Regards
Chris

 

[kagemusha]

Maybe a single sub forum....'Tricks of the Trade'....which could contain a section within the whole for each of those mentioned above....and any more that we can think of?

Ron

 

[grasshopper]

The result would be a PF built background bible ..excellent idea

 

[Wayneb]

Thanks for the great feedback guys;.. It was just a question to spark some thoughts and not to offend anyone. But I will say it's good to have Ron...alias "Kagemusha" (sounds like something you would make in a blender) back with his thoughts and input............Do you think it's possible that what you say, is better than what you do?....

Wayne