Possible Dishonest Dealers : How Do You Deal With Them ?

[Johan]

I do not want to start another debate about this, as I've seen happening previously on this forum.
I'm not interested in receiving flak from friends of possible dishonest dealers, as I've seen previously on this forum.
I WILL NOT NAME OR ACCUSE ANYBODY.
I'm just looking for a solution to a problem .
The problem is : I have ordered an item from a dealer who lives in a neighbour country, not in my country. I have paid. Until now, several weeks after payment, and after two written promises that the kit was sent to my address (on two different dates ?!?) I have received nothing at all.
Now I'm looking for a solution to the problem I explained above. I am NOT looking for speculations, reasoning, debates about the honesty and good intentions of a possible dishonest dealer, bullshitting about unfortunate circumstances that I'm not interested in, and receiving flak from friends who stick up for this guy - I want to hear good advice to come to an honest solution that resolves this problem, is satisfactory and just for both parties involved - after all we live in a democratic world, so I'm not witch-hunting here, I only claim my right as a buyer and to receive what I've paid for .

OK, now how do I best deal with this situation ? Your good advice is welcome.
Also, I wonder, can the administrators of this forum, upon showing proof of my payment, undertake actions against possible dishonest dealers such as not allowing them to advertise their goods here in the future ?
Please note that I have avoided to openly name or accuse anybody. I wish to deal with this in a responsible way, and find a satisfactory solution.

 

[Helm]

Without trying to sound funny,you have checked with the post office and hasn't been misaddressed/delivered ? If not you can PayPal dispute if that's how you paid or speak to your bank/credit card people about a refund,this is of course a UK method,not sure if it applies to you exactly. I doubt very much that the site admin will take up for one side or the other and can't say as I blame them

Steve

 

[Johan]

I doubt very much that the site admin will take up for one side or the other and can't say as I blame them

Steve

Hi Steve, thanks for the advice, will take note of that.

As for the point about the Forum administrators remaining neutral : well I have noticed previously here in such cases that they do not really pronounce themselves for one or the other.
It is something that I do not understand : if it is clear that several people are complaining about not having received their orders, then it's because they were probably not sent. Which is not honest if they paid for their orders.
So, why do forum admins not take measures, fe not allowing them to advertise their products - remember, said products will be paid for, but possibly not sent: OK as an old hand I should have known better maybe - mea culpa - but what with a new member, or a beginner ? Nothing more gutting to a newcomer to this hobby than to be treated this way !

 

[Filipe]

So, why do forum admins not take measures

Johan

If i introduce you to a friend of mine and, you and him, decide to make business, and one of you two do not stand for the agreement, them the fault would be mine?

No, right?

The same applies here. Forums are places of meeting people and talk about subjects. Any forum. About figures, about cars, sports, history, etc. The admins just create and manage the environment, but cannot be responsible for every action of every user.

You give the interesting example about advertising. Let´s imagine that your order was misplaced by the fault of the post office (a imaginary situation, please). But you complain, with reason, and the admins punish a company that have no fault, no legal responsability, for what happened.

In many cases, specially the ones involving small companies, it is the word of one against the word of other. How could the admins take sides? It would be, at least, unwise, at the most, unfair.

On the other hand, the admins take action against recasters. It is a action with legal basis and evident proof of guilt.

I do not say that you are not right. I do not say that you dont have the right to claim what you have paid for. I am just trying to show the "other side of the coin" in the case of the forum admins. Do not aim your desire of justice towards them.

I say this as a former admin of a brazilian WW2 forum. If i received a dollar every time someone complained to me about someone being "a nazi", i would have the entire Pegaso line. In gold.

And, honestly, i really hope that your situation is reedemed soon.

Kindest regards

Filipe from Brazil

 

[polyphemus]

I would invoke the Paypal dispute procedure if you paid that way. You have 45 days from the date of order to invoke the non-delivery of goods situation to Paypal.

Geoff

 

[Johan]

Filipe, thank you. That is a logical explanation and I now understand much better the position of the forum admins.

I would only personally add that it was never my intention to blame the forum administrators. The only person who is possibly to blame is the dealer who probably has never sent my order. I did check at the Post office, they knew nothing about a parcel sent to me by registered mail, as was claimed by the dealer.

 

[Johan]

Geoff, PayPal is the way I used to sent money, and it's been more than 45 days now - I'll give it until the end of this week, then I'll start a procedure via PayPal.

thanks.

 

[Filipe]

Johan

Since you live "in a strange land" , i do not know. But, if you and the dealer live both in the European Union, could it not be solved thru the ECIP ? Even with legal action ?

 

[Tommi]

The staff of this web site do not accept in any way responsibility for any financial transactions that occur between business and customers/members that use this web site. No financial transactions are ever exchanged via this web site and any payment disputes should be handled privately between the two parties concerned. If paypal is used to make payment then you can apply for a refund within 45 days, you also have refund rights through your credit\debit card company.
Tommi

 

[Johan]

Filipe,

even in the EU there are strange lands where all logic seems to have gone
Do you mean this ? --> http://ec.europa.eu/ecip/
I had not thought about that, but I will examine ... thanks.
"legal action", well of course that opens a new question - how much is that going to cost ? how long is that going to take ? is it worth the price of one figure kit that I paid, or does one go all the way for the sake of putting an end for once and for all to this dishonesty ?

 

[Johan]

Filipe,

even in the EU there are strange lands where all logic seems to have gone
Do you mean this ? --> http://ec.europa.eu/ecip/
I had not thought about that, but I will examine ... thanks.
"legal action", well of course that opens a new question - how much is that going to cost ? how long is that going to take ? is it worth the price of one figure kit that I paid, or does one go all the way for the sake of putting an end for once and for all to this dishonesty ?

 

[Johan]

The staff of this web site do not accept in any way responsibility for any financial transactions that occur between business and customers/members that use this web site. No financial transactions are ever exchanged via this web site and any payment disputes should be handled privately between the two parties concerned. If paypal is used to make payment then you can apply for a refund within 45 days, you also have refund rights through your credit\debit card company.
Tommi

OK, that is clear : then there remains one question : if disputes about orders that were not sent but paid for cannot be solved privately in a satisfactory way for both parties, because the "offending" transaction partner ignores the other party, is one allowed to give an account of what happened here on this forum, I mean not in a vulgar tone, but just the facts ?

 

[Filipe]

I do not know how the ECIP and commerce between different countries of the EU work "per se", i just read some stuff about it.

Anyway, good luck. Glad i could be a little bit of help.

 

[Gaudin]

Geoff, PayPal is the way I used to sent money, and it's been more than 45 days now - I'll give it until the end of this week, then I'll start a procedure via PayPal.
thanks.

As it is more than 45 days following a transaction - it is likely that Pay pal will dismiss it as the timeframe for you to act has expired.
If there is no mutual agreement and reliably a fault of a courier is excluded then realistically there is nothing you can do. In UK for example you could in theory report the trader to trading standards authority or take him / her to small claims court. It is likely to cost quite alot and not worth in terms of one model kit.
when the seller is in anotther country- you stand no chance even to get close to any resolution as there isnt really a mechanism and no foreign court will bother with petty claims.
Best way forward to curse aloud profusely, have a shot of vodka and move on

I had a similar issues with Alexander miniatures where owner took the payment and never sent anything. Naively I waited and waited untill 45 day timeframe expired by about 5.
I know of dozens of others who were scammed same way. Eventually another company aquired master copies from him and praised him for his generosity and co-operation which I felt was a bit of a travesty.

 

[Gaudin]

*

 

[Tommi]

Yes Johan
The way you have publicised your findings and dispute is done in a constructive and acceptable manor
Tommi

 

[Johan]

As it is more than 45 days following a transaction - it is likely that Pay pal will dismiss it as the timeframe for you to act has expired.
If there is no mutual agreement and reliably a fault of a courier is excluded then realistically there is nothing you can do. In UK for example you could in theory report the trader to trading standards authority or take him / her to small claims court. It is likely to cost quite alot and not worth in terms of one model kit.
when the seller is in anotther country- you stand no chance even to get close to any resolution as there isnt really a mechanism and no foreign court will bother with petty claims.
Best way forward to curse aloud profusely, have a shot of vodka and move on

I had a similar issues with Alexander miniatures where owner took the payment and never sent anything. Naively I waited and waited untill 45 day timeframe expired by about 5.
I know of dozens of others who were scammed same way. Eventually another company aquired master copies from him and praised him for his generosity and co-operation which I felt was a bit of a travesty.

Thanks for your reply ! OK well Vodka is not my thing but as we do have a Scottish pub overhere - a rare thing to have on the Continent innit ? - I'll have a shot of 15 year old MacAllan to celebrate my frustration

 

[Gaudin]

I think whiskey should do just fine celebrate the end of your frustration and trust karma to do its work, hehe.

 

[Johan]

Yes Johan
The way you have publicised your findings and dispute is done in a constructive and acceptable manor
Tommi

Ok Tommi, indeed it was my intention to discuss this in a constructive manner and - even when I'm one of two parties involved - an objective and factual way; I have tried to avoid being vulgar and slandering the reputation of the other party. The reactions I have had from other members have been very helpful and constructive also, and in a way I feel somewhat less "gutted" about the affair because there are people out there who understand and try to offer some good and helpful advice.

Thank you.

 

[moz]

Johan
Its me your on about, i have no problem with you saying it.
I`m at the busiest i`ve been in years hence the reason people are waiting weeks for their figures and hence the reason Gordon mitchell is taking over the business.
Now i`ve refunded your payment which i hope will please you.
You asked for a figure from a first generation mould which i was happy to do just as soon as the figure was due to be remoulded, thats a favour as far as i`m concerned.
I told you weeks ago that your order had been processed and i wasn`t sure if it had been sent and if in the case that it had, an older mould figure or a first generation figure. I couldn`t find a record of one being sent( i would normally have a receipt which led me to believe you hadn`t) but i said at the time that if an older one turned up then i would send you another figure from a new mould gratis, thats another favour as far as i`m concerned.
Anyway, you have your money.
In the past i have done you favours i even went out of my way to send you photos of Phantoms in the falklands which i had taken, scanning them and generally taking time out to do it and all you have done at almost every oportunity on this and other forums in the past is bust my balls.
Now you may not have named me in person here but you sure have made a bloody big issue about something considering i was going out of my way to do you a favour.
Goodbye!