Salmond

[brian]

I'm started to get a wee bit worried with some of the comments made by some folk on this thread.They're either losing the plot ,or haven't faced up to the reality of what's going on.
Salmond's propaganda is as good as Goebbels was for the Germans during ww2.Here's Alex's buzz words ,poll tax,bedroom tax,Trident,Tories are to blame,Labour is in with the Tory plot.That's all the man and his party can say, and aren't the Scottish swallowing it,hook line and sinker.
That's the bullshit,here's the truth.Did anybody notice the billions that were wiped out overnight,and the pound dropping because of the possibilities of a Yes vote being successful.
Did anybody notice that we are guaranteed home rule within the U.K.It's a bribe i hear you say! I personally don't care if it's a bribe or not,as you should never cut off your nose to spite your face,and never look a gift horse in the mouth.
As for my English friends,a yes vote would be highly detrimental to England.Mind you,you'll probably end up with a lot a Scotsman moving down south to look for the jobs that the big companies have taken with them, when they jump ship.
Then the rest of us Scots can wait for the mass immigration promised by Salmond (read the white paper), so that they can get jobs ,to pay tax,which will pay for the ageing Scottish population's pensions.Not my words but Mr Salmonds,check it out.
I'm not a dyed in the wool Unionist,but i know when it's time to use a bit of common sense ,and stop all this crap about a Scottish Utopia.Some people of the yes persuasion will think me a traitor, but when it comes down to it, looking after my family and their future is my priority in life and so it should be.
Whether i'm right or wrong, i can always say i've did my homework ,looking it from both sides of the fence before coming to my decision.I know that if more people thought about it a wee bit more they might come to their senses,but unfortunately my fellow Scotsmen have a horrible history of shooting themselves in the foot.Hopefully not this time.
Brian

 

[brian]

I'm afraid Ron ,if it wasn't to do with religion, there wouldn't have been a Culloden, followed up by clearing the highlands.I was only correcting the myth.Great book to read is The Highland Clearances by John Prebble.
Off course the chat about the referendum has nothing to do with religion,i was just correcting a wee error.
Tell me one thing Ron,why mention the Campbells and Davie White?

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Tell me one thing Ron,why mention the Campbells and Davie White? They all sold the jerseys Brian along with Gordon Brown selling off all the Gold reserves at a knockdown price . Re Davie white ! he was just the Patsy and truly set up. As for the campbells some of my best friends are they

 

[stu]

I spoke to lady yesterday,,,born and bred in Scotland, proud of it but also proud to be british !!

She has no vote and is Scottish !!!!!

She fears she will need to use her passport to enter her own country of birth and has no rights to decide its future,,,her land of birth and identity.

That's bad .

We are all british,,,we have an identity a history and a drive together like no other. We are also Scots, English, Welsh and Northern Irish and have our own identity and history, but collectively we have always been Great.

Stuart

 

[Gra30]

Well said Stu, personally if the Union is breaking up, with the historical importance and success of standing united it has carried, EVERY member of that union should have a say.
Of course it is far too late now, but if there is a breakaway I think the divide will be far greater than ever before and dare I say expressed with resentment.

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Don't agree with that Graham, that is imposing your will on another people ,you are right we are British by name but we are not the same as english people just as the welsh and Irish are different .
Stu leaving or entering your country will always require a passport, in fact you need to produce a passport to go to Belfast these days re security
Gra Let the Scottish people decide it's their future or funeral
Please don't send the Red coats

 

[Gra30]

But Ron it is not even as clean cut as the Scots voting, an Englishman or woman living in Scotland gets a vote, a Scotsman or woman born and bred living in England doesn't. Going off your text, some of the results will be infact from those imposing on another people, the votes that are counted from English people residing in Scotland.
It would have to be a vote solely for those born in Scotland, and residing anywhere in the UK.
As said though, all too late now.

 

[stu]

Ron...i never thought of myself as just english till recently....only british..

I 'm just sad that people who are scots cant vote on their country's destiny.

If the yes vote happens then fine ...we will all have to live with the consequences ...you decide your destiny..its your future your country...but shouldnt it be open to all of your kins men and women

Stuart

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Under the logic that everyone affected gets a vote the Soviet Union would still exist. Sorry I can't agree with that. But I know where my hopes lie. In this time of world tension, a certain person must be smiling with glee to see one of Nato's strongest allies considering implosion.

Colin

 

[Waterman]

You are deciding Ron, but unfortunately you could have an enormous effect on the rest of us. 5 million a very small minority of the UK deciding the outcome for the rest , although I do fully understand your sentiments and agree with a lot of the things you are saying. I also believe it has opened up an enormous divide between us as Gra30 has indicated, and things will never be the same again,and yes you Scots are different, many of you have more likening for the French than the English. The Auld Alliance, is still fresh in your minds. But your arguments is more with politicians rather than the common Englishman, and you are now falling into their old trap of divide and rule. Cynical old me, says that unless you do get a thumping great Yes majority, those politicians that even a lot of us English hate, will connive and rig the vote and deny you Nationalists your victory. They will pull a rabbit out of the hat before the 18 th I bet, they will never let you alter the Status Quo, I smell fish all day long. But good luck to you if you do pull it off.

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

You are deciding Ron, but unfortunately you could have an enormous effect on the rest of us. 5 million a very small minority of the UK deciding the outcome for the rest , although I do fully understand your sentiments and agree with a lot of the things you are saying. I also believe it has opened up an enormous divide between us as Gra30 has indicated, and things will never be the same again,and yes you Scots are different, many of you have more likening for the French than the English. The Auld Alliance, is still fresh in your minds. But your arguments is more with politicians rather than the common Englishman, and you are now falling into their old trap of divide and rule. Cynical old me, says that unless you do get a thumping great Yes majority, those politicians that even a lot of us English hate, will connive and rig the vote and deny you Nationalists your victory. They will pull a rabbit out of the hat before the 18 th I bet, they will never let you alter the Status Quo, I smell fish all day long. But good luck to you if you do pull it off.

You are absolutely right about the Rabbit , I mentioned that to my brother today and he said I was talking tommy rot .
Oh just for the record I never said I was voting yes , still undecided

 

[DEL]

But Ron it is not even as clean cut as the Scots voting, an Englishman or woman living in Scotland gets a vote, a Scotsman or woman born and bred living in England doesn't. Going off your text, some of the results will be infact from those imposing on another people, the votes that are counted from English people residing in Scotland.
It would have to be a vote solely for those born in Scotland, and residing anywhere in the UK.
As said though, all too late now.

The point is Gra it's about investing in the future of a country and everyone living there and contributing to the culture and common wealth of that country should have a say.
Having friends in Mull and Skye I regularly travel up the West Coast and there's loads of English people living there, bringing up their families and generating a bit of spark that was sadly missing in some of the communities. It's astonishing the support for independence from this group.
I suppose the majority have made a lifestyle choice, either post retirement or to live a 'greener' life.
Fair do's to them as they are often the driving force behind initiative to improve the lot of the area whilst protecting the natural and cultural values.
Along with Brian Snaddon, Davie Mitchell and Grant Gellatly (Gellso) I'll be on the train south when the result gets announced, we should just be nearing the border so it'll be interesting to see the reaction on the train, at least the 4 of us are of a similar opinion.

 

[DEL]

Scots are different, (not really) many of you have more likening for the French than the English (no we don't). The Auld Alliance, is still fresh in your minds. (no it's not) But your arguments is more with politicians rather than the common Englishman, (mine certainl is) They will pull a rabbit out of the hat before the 18 th I bet, (only 'rabbit' to work would be to make a suitably attractive 'DevoMax' offer, it should have been done months ago and established through legislation).

A few perfectly understandable misconceptions there mate. Of particular note if you were to ask the average Scottish 20 year old about the Auld Alliance they wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about.
For those of us 50+ we were served up some real mince about how the French came to support us in our struggle against the English oppressor, and most of us swallowed it.
My daugter is doing joint honours, one subject being History at Univ Glasgow and has the sketchiest knowledge about the Auld Alliance. She is of the view if you really want to understand the character of a Scot don't look to France look to Scotland and the scots relationship with Poland, Scandinavia and Russia.

 

[Helm]

I've fought alongside (and with ) Scots Welsh and Irish lads but I have no time for the politicians of either stripe who are using this as an excuse to peddle their tripe. It wont make much difference to me one way or another but it will be a shame if the union is broken
Steve

 

[brian]

Just for Ron the fence sitter,here's your post that kicked off this whole debate
"Well after that debate last night I'm sure the no voters will sleep easy forever more as Fat heid mad an arse off himself ."

 

[brian]

The point is Gra it's about investing in the future of a country and everyone living there and contributing to the culture and common wealth of that country should have a say.
Having friends in Mull and Skye I regularly travel up the West Coast and there's loads of English people living there, bringing up their families and generating a bit of spark that was sadly missing in some of the communities. It's astonishing the support for independence from this group.
I suppose the majority have made a lifestyle choice, either post retirement or to live a 'greener' life.
Fair do's to them as they are often the driving force behind initiative to improve the lot of the area whilst protecting the natural and cultural values.
Along with Brian Snaddon, Davie Mitchell and Grant Gellatly (Gellso) I'll be on the train south when the result gets announced, we should just be nearing the border so it'll be interesting to see the reaction on the train, at least the 4 of us are of a similar opinion.

Don't you worry boys i'll have my wee Union Jack with me,and i'll be waving it before we hit London.

 

[brian]

Don't agree with that Graham, that is imposing your will on another people ,you are right we are British by name but we are not the same as english people just as the welsh and Irish are different .
Stu leaving or entering your country will always require a passport, in fact you need to produce a passport to go to Belfast these days re security
Gra Let the Scottish people decide it's their future or funeral
Please don't send the Red coats

Would that be the British Red Coats Ron.I think a wee bit of research is required when bringing up historical matters

 

[brian]

Unfortunately Steve it may make a difference to England, as there's talk of a new recession if yes goes ahead.

 

[DEL]

Don't you worry boys i'll have my wee Union Jack with me,and i'll be waving it before we hit London.

Looks like we'll be arrested in Newcastle then.

 

[Helm]

Hard to tell Brian nothing I can do anyway
Steve