Salmond

[Waterman]

I never knew a Scotsman to ever refuse an English note, but I know of a lot of English to refuse a Scottish one. But what does that tell me? Nothing of any consequence at all. A bit like the referendum .

 

[brian]

Some emotions running high but let's be candid and non emotional here, it's never, ever, going to be a "YES" vote is it.

Once people look over the edge and into the yonder - especially those who have savings or a pension plan- who will take that massive leap of faith based upon (at best) wild optimism on the part of Alex Salmond that Scotland can go it alone with an independent currency....whatever that would be as even he does not seem to know! If you had, say, £10K in your savings account before the referendum, what (exactly) will you have if Alex and his mates triumph irrespective of what the building society book or bank statement says you have? It was car crash TV watching him bluster his way on arguably the most important single issue of currency where the SNP 'policy' was based more upon 'hope' than an actual considered fiscal issue(s) to address. It could quite reasonably be asked by an independent and dispassionate non Scotish observer; is independence best for the Scots collectively as a nation or for the political careers and aspirations of both Alex Salmond and other senior SNP members because personally, I see little rational evidence of the former but lots for the latter?

And for all those Scotish patriots who think "King Alex" would not betray his country, well, just over a decade ago, didn't we in England feel the same about a certain shyster called Tony Blair......and the rest as they say 'is history'

Like Keith and the others say, as an Englishman, I am totally indifferent to the whole issue of Scotish Nationalism which been festering for years on the UK political map. If by some earthshattering result they go, then I wish Scotland all the best. If they stay however, how about some agreement to bury the issue at least for a couple of generations because personally, I can see this hanging around like a bad smell for years to come and of course, at great public expense to the taxpayer with no winners other than 'on the make' politicians themselves.

Taken collectively, I and indeed everyone with whom I speak, is FAR more concerned about other events on the world stage such as ISIS, home grown religious nutters, out of control immigration (of the wrong sort) and the brinkmanship 'sabre rattling' coming from Russia & Ukraine.

Gary

Well Gary, being from Scotland, and being very much British,i too am concerned about IS extremests and the immigration issue etc,etc,.You didn't think we're all so concerned about our own issues that we don't think, and have an opinion, about other matters?I'm starting to get a bit of bad feeling on this thread between the different nationalities, which only took a silly remark early on, to kick it off.
This happens to be a forum for a hobby we share ,and one that i'm personnally passionate about. Wouldn't it be great if we left it to all the politicians to sort out, and we all got back to thinking about Euro.

 

[billyturnip]

Careful Brian, I`ve heard some right extremists attend Euro.

Roger

 

[brian]

I never knew a Scotsman to ever refuse an English note, but I know of a lot of English to refuse a Scottish one. But what does that tell me? Nothing of any consequence at all. A bit like the referendum .

Just think for a minute and maybe,just maybe realise how offensive your being,and you wonder why some Scottish can't stand the English.You and others like you have no say in the referendum,but you seem to be more concerned than what we are.If it's of no consequence to you why comment.I would keep schtum until the 18th September, and then voice your opinion.It's statements like yours that would get more Jocks voting Yes,but fortunately we seem to have more common sense and the vote will be NO.

 

[housecarl]

For what it's worth I hope you stay.
I just wish the north of England had the option to rid ourselves of Westminster.

 

[DEL]

I never knew a Scotsman to ever refuse an English note, but I know of a lot of English to refuse a Scottish one. But what does that tell me? Nothing of any consequence at all. A bit like the referendum .

And there we have it ....... up 'til now a slightly heated debate between members from both side of the border who know each other and I'm confident, respect each other's views and opinions.
From nowhere and adding "nothing of any consequence at all" we now have a comment that smacks of embarrassingly ridiculous racial / national stereotyping.

 

[Redcap]

For what it's worth I hope you stay.
I just wish the north of England had the option to rid ourselves of Westminster.

Carl mate, like it or not, the ONLY part of the UK that would make financial sense and be guaranteed to be better off by going independent would be the Home Counties of England. Irrespective of national or even regional passions, they are the powerhouse for the entire UK economy. I suspect those living there would dearly love for (them) to go it alone rather than propping up entire swathes of the country suffering from industrial decline or state reliance for the bulk of it's employment.

I don't include London itself in the summary as our capital is (arguably) now a 'country within a country' both finacially and socially.

Cheers Carl and hope you are well.

Gary

p.s Great avatar but you seem to be confusing Cameron for a (real) Tory !

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Well I started this thread as a light hearted poke at the man who would be King ,and now we almost got a war , may I remind you English chaps the guys you are crossing swords with are passionate about staying in the Union as for not excepting our colourful bank notes that I can understand as I was once payed with Northern Ireland notes and took some convincing to there legality .
Most of you guys will meet up at Euro so cool it and have fun . happy modelling

 

[garyhiggins]

I cannot believe how some people, for the sake of a quiet life, are willing to go along with the politicians smug belief that we all have the attention span of a goldfish and that we can be fed on any line of nonsensical B** S*** they care to peddle!
The great Fish face tells us that He (genius that he is) can break up a political union but still have a wildly unbalanced monetary union, in spite of the devastating evidence of that self serving corrupt treacherous nightmare in Brussels, where it has been proven beyond any shadow of doubt to be impossible, and no one's going to suffer for it, and anyone who even questions his fantasies is an evil doommonger?
He says Scotland will be in the E.U. but still keep the pound? Everyone the world over knows that IF the E.U. allowed a newly independant Scotland to join, then they would be forced to join their currency union no matter how much of a disaster it has already proved to be!!! Of course this, being a fact, is mere scare stories according to the great Fish face and his even more diminutive side kick Sturgeon!!!
I think we can draw a few conclusions based on all that we know of this debate
1 If you elect a known Rabblerouser, he's going to raise the rabble, and they don't deal in common sense thinking
2 If you don't want a smell of rotten fish, don't elect fish
3 Don't let their insanity instill in you a sense of apathy
4 Finally, never let a politician open its mouth without strapping it to a lie detector, B.S. meter, Rack, have a fully armed Madam Whiplash standing by, and doping it up with a couple of armfulls of truth drugs!!!!!!!
And on that note, best wishes, Gary.

 

[Tecumsea]

Well when we put this to bed, we can have some more sport with the (more?) important 2017 in or out of the EU Referendum, PF will be buzzing or will we give a ****. What is sure we won't be any the wiser than we are over the potential ramifications of this one. Again judgement will be more emotional than factual I fear. What will the impact be for Scotland and the rest of us if we leave the EC? now there is something to ponder

 

[DEL]

Well when we put this to bed, we can have some more sport with the (more?) important 2017 in or out of the EU Referendum, PF will be buzzing or will we give a ****. What is sure we won't be any the wiser than we are over the potential ramifications of this one. Again judgement will be more emotional than factual I fear. What will the impact be for Scotland and the rest of us if we leave the EC? now there is something to ponder

That Keith is exactly the sort of question Scottish voters need to think about for this referendum. It would seem (if you believe some of the polls) that the majority in England favour leaving the EU whilst in Scotland the reverse is true. The situation again would be that the disproportionately larger English vote would carry. I don't know whether there would be sufficient pro EU votes in Wales and Northern Ireland to influence the outcome
Personally I'm in favour of the EU warts and all but obviously would accept the simple majority as a United Kingdom. So who knows, out of the EU and Boris Johnson running the country.....

 

[Tecumsea]

We have been promised an EU referendum before, I'm not convinced we will have one, in fact I'm not even sure if Cameron will carry the next election in which case it will go out of the window once again. I would have no idea where to put my X if we had one.

 

[Gellso]

We're fooked either way we vote.
These men of the people are always in it for themselves.
It's just a yes/no answer to a question who you want to get shafted from.
The voting form is as useless as a Scottish tenner in an Eastend pub.

Gells

 

[garyhiggins]

The E.U. question couldn't be simpler, it's a matter of do we want to be a country, with our own laws and constitution developed through our history,and our own head of state as a guarantor of our constitution, or do we want to be a subject province of a foreign bureaucratic dictatorship over which we have no control and not even any say in how we are governed, even down to them deciding which of our laws they want to abolish. I know which way I'll be voting!!!

 

[Tecumsea]

Get the impression you are anti EU Gary

 

[DEL]

The E.U. question couldn't be simpler, it's a matter of do we want to be a country, with our own laws and constitution developed through our history,and our own head of state as a guarantor of our constitution, or do we want to be a subject province of a foreign bureaucratic dictatorship over which we have no control and not even any say in how we are governed, even down to them deciding which of our laws they want to abolish. I know which way I'll be voting!!!

Glad you've managed to simplify it Gary
I find it very complex.
Seems that as a country we endorse and implement all EU decisions whereas the French have cracked it. They agree and then simply ignore anything they don't like......way to go France.

 

[brian]

After being bombarded with watching the debate tonight, and not having any knowledge of the ins and outs of the E.U. i've nearly given up the will to live,so i don't really give a shit no more.

 

[garyhiggins]

Get the impression you are anti EU Gary

Who me?

Glad you've managed to simplify it Gary
I find it very complex.
Seems that as a country we endorse and implement all EU decisions whereas the French have cracked it. They agree and then simply ignore anything they don't like......way to go France.

Not us, our glorious leaders, as you say the French have got the right idea!
Anyway, ho hum..... Back to the salmon sandwiches

 

[brian]

Watched the debate last night and Salmond won,but it was sooo stage managed by him, including having a rent a mob in the Yes seats.All it was missing was a wee bit of braveheart at the end "Freedom" Hopefully sensible people will see through his performance.What he said worries me greatly fot the future of my grandkids,as let's face it, it aint going to affect old farts like me much.Let's kid ourselves on and say we've got tons of oil which is debatable.The £5 billion that oil lost last year may only be a blip but how would an independent Scotland have covered that loss?
So we're going to keep the pound and not pay our part of the debt,not very honourable.
People on pensions,which includes me.Are they guaranteed the same under an independent Scotland.
These are 3 crucial questions that can't be answered, so why anybody would vote yes is beyond me.
You know what you are getting with a No vote under theTories ,Labour Snp and whoever is in power.We've had 300 years of it and it's done me no harm,but a Yes vote is a gamble,and i can understand some may want to gamble, but NOT with my grandkids and the generations to come you won't.Try and not be selfish and think of what you might be inflicting on your youngsters .

So this thread doesn't turn nasty again, a wee tip to all my English friends,and i mean good friends.I can understand how you must be feeling listening to all the hot wind about Scotland ,as i feel the same,fed up listening to it ,reading about it,watching it etc,etc, that i'm totally pissed off with the whole thing,but here's the tip.Allow us to slag off our country, but try not to do the same,as when that occurs,and it has, your more or less helping the Yes voters and infuriating a few good Scotsman who,like you,want to get on with life with all it's ups and downs.
I lived and served in Australia for nearly 10 years and on occassion slagged off Scotland, but if an Aussie slagged it off i went into a defensive mode.
Once the 18th has passed,then you have a right to voice your opinions, and most welcome they will be to.
Brian

 

[brian]

Since i'm in the mood here's another thing that gets right up my nose.Food Banks!!! Anybody who has used a food bank is doing something horribly wrong IMO,which will obviously increase in numbers as more people,maybe not so deserving, jump on the bandwagon
I started married life when i was 19 and and with a kiddy in Glasgow.I was never out of work, but i was living well below todays standards, living in sub standard housing and one thing i could always do is feed my family without any outside help.There was a thing called home cooking in my day ,where you actually made your meals yourself.If there had been a food bank then it would have been doling out potatoes,raw mince,onions etc,etc, not tinned products or ready meals and the rubbish we've come to expect as "normal" food.We've all become a nation of greedy bastards which is exactly why the world banks collapsed e.g Can i get a loan Mr banker-no problems sir how much do you want? I don't know if i can afford that Mr banker-no problems sir the moneys yours.You could blame the banker for selling you something you can't afford, but surely the person taking the loan has a responsibility as well.Greed,pure and simple.
Which leads me back to these poor folk having to go to a food bank to feed their kids.Do they smoke?probably,do they have a contracted phone ?probably do you have a microwave oven ?more than likely,do you have a tumble,electricity guzzling,dryer? probably,do you drink?possibly.
Give all, or some of these things you can't afford up and feed your bloody kids, and then if your still needing help by all means ,welcome to the food bank.
So endeth my rant.I'm away down to my local coffee shop and have a read of the paper and have a smoke,all of these things which i CAN afford.
Brian